Text 5417, 140 rader
Skriven 2006-07-31 18:21:00 av Robert E Starr JR (5914.babylon5)
Ärende: Re: I'm Gone
====================
* * * This message was from David E. Powell to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.m * * *
         * * * and has been forwarded to you by Lord Time * * *         
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@MSGID: <1154382046.647094.167660@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
@REPLY: <ewzxg.26720$aW2.4365@trnddc03>
Laura Appelbaum wrote:
    "David E. Powell" <David_Powell3006@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1153811506.426537.17290@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Laura Appelbaum wrote:
>>> "Jay Denebeim" <denebeim@deepthot.org> wrote in message
>>> news:e9iuus$fto$4@dent.deepthot.org...
>> >
>> >> Wanna bet?  One of them never stopped until he died.  (It was only
>> >> after that that I learned he was such a jerk because he was young,
>> >> very young, and dying of cancer.  Felt horrible about it.)
>>> >
>>> Neither being young, nor dying of cancer are reasons or excuses for being
>> an
>>> asshole.  Me, I never spent one minute feeling sorry Cronin was gone, no
>>> matter what it took to get rid of him.  Don't think you should either.
>
>> Because if anyone disagrees with you, they deserve to die of a horrid
>> disease. Right. "No matter what it takes."

>That's absolutely not what I'm saying.  What I'm saying is that I genuinely
couldn't care >less one way or another if he is dea

"No matter what it takes"

>because all I knew him as was an annoyance.  Made no difference to me whether
it >was because he died or because someone stole 

The dude was still in his teens. Please understand that I am *not*
hating you personally here, you are a great poster and have been on
here as long as almost anyone. My general point is that I believe you
did not see more of the personality of the guy. Maybe your experience
was limited to being in the "other side" of arguments with him. I would
hope that even so, you would agree that he was quite intelligent in his
framing of arguments, and that with the potential he had over time to
become more seasoned, he left the world too soon. That, and it is sad
that he left before more of that human potential could be realised.

>I'm just being waayyyy more honest than apparently quite a  few of you are
willing to be with yourselves.

So I am not being honest for saying I miss a guy who was pretty cool
when I talked to him online, and had a lot of promse as a human being,
and who died at a young age? Or are only those who would agree with you
being honest about themselves? You will have to rephrase.

>Because there's a huge difference between actively wishing someone ill and
truly not >giving a damn about them at all.

There is a quote about the opposite of love being not hatred, but
indifference.

   > > And saying no one should feel sorry for a kid who died of
cancer?

>:rolls eyes: No, but by Jay's saying he felt "horrible about it" it seemed to
me that he >was feeling somehow guilty that he dr
 earned that >ill will in life?

I am assuming you never talked to the guy elsegroup, or dropped by the
Tom Servo group back then. I am sorry that you missed out. The guy was
brilliant, witty, and left our mortal world far too soon.

Sigh. With Jay, I am not saying that he should feel bad. Cronan loved
to argue and he would do so frequently. I will say that Jay should not
worry, because Cronan loved arguing. Also, if Jay didn't know the guy
had health problems, and Cronan didn't want to tell him, he shouldn't
worry about that, as it was CT's choice. Cronan argued online as part
of his life. No one he argued with should feel bad in any way about it
later, as it was Cronan's choice and one of his passions.

>Doesn't that rather shortchange all the kind words people say about
*wonderful* people >who have passed away, if suddenly we're

No one asked you to praise Cronan to the heights, but a little
understanding of the loss of a gifted young man might have done
wonders. If Cronan were here today, who knows how he would have grown
and further expanded his mind? And as far as I am concerned, he was a
wonderful person and always will be.

>If Jay had only said "it was sad when I learned he was a teenager and died ,"
I wouldn't >have said anything, because I could s

There are things to say like "You couldn't have known" or thereabouts.
Saying you didn't give a damn about the guy dying... damn. It's a news
group. It was more than six years ago.

  >  > Honestly, I expected better. Did I always agree with Cronan? Not

>> always. Did most people always agree with the guy? No, but he had the
>> courage to put things out there, and in time... goodness... in time he
>> may have done so much more. Thinking back to myself at that age, the
>> guy had so much together. He had so much together. This is all so long
>> ago.

>Well then you clearly experienced a different Cronan than I did; maybe you
"met" him >elsewhere online.

Yes. In my opinion, if you had checked out AFTS, you would have like
it.

Some have posted the link: <http://www.holyducttape.com/cronan/>

You might want to check it out, legit, some classic stuff. Brash but
really funny.

>To me, he was nothing more than a troll who had an amazing capacity to take
over >threads and drive off jms or anyone else who 

The guy had wit and intelligence, and was quite precocious - whether or
not one agreed with all his opinions. Courage, he had, as he regularly
defended his positions strongly and did not shy away from an argument.
I mean, for someone not yet twenty to get into an argument with a TV
producer and stick to their guns, that demands a certain level of
pluck. Whether or not you like the argument, the kid's got guts....

>If you did, hey, :shrug: that's fine.  But no need to assail me for being
honest about the >virtual person I experienced.

If I disagree with the assessment, of course there is ;)

Cronan would want it no other way!

Sometimes, even years later, I do miss the guy. I'm sorry you did not
get along better with him. He could have a great sense of humor, and I
will always remember the one tip he gave me on usenet arguments: "Use a
sharper sword, my friend." He lived that philosophy. I don't say to
feel bad if anyone argued with him, hey I did my share of it too at
times, just remember how gifted and passionate he was at such a young
age. 

 >   LMA
            
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