Text 333, 139 rader
Skriven 2005-05-03 23:29:22 av Steve Asher (3:800/432.0)
    Kommentar till text 324 av MARNIE TROSCLAIR (1:123/140)
Ärende: Cyc, AI, Singularity
============================
Mulling over MARNIE TROSCLAIR to STEVE ASHER 02 May 2005

Hi Marnie,

MT> I'm trying to imagine where you're going with this, and  
MT> I think I have a fairly good idea. 

SA> Hmmm, well, I have no idea where I am going with this,  
SA> except that it -might- be connected in some way to the  
SA> image of the beast.  

 MT> Well, the first thought is that it's rather ironic that we're 
 MT> contemplating the creation of a golem, an act associated with 
 MT> rabbis, while the "image of the beast" would appear to be  
 MT> more closely linked to the oppressor of Jews or believers. 

While it may seem ironic, it will result not in liberation and
freedom for the Jews, but in an almost successful attempt to
destroy them (and all life).

 MT> Revelation's "image of the beast" which people are forced to
 MT> worship has its parallel in Daniel 3 where Nebuchadnezzar, the
 MT> king of Babylon, creates an image of gold which all are commanded
 MT> to worship.   

 MT> And, since Revelation is speaking of the city, represented by a 
 MT> woman with MYSTERY written upon her forehead, which goes by the
 MT> name  of Babylon, it seems the comparison to Nebuchadnezzar's act
 MT> is  more appropriate. 

 MT> That said, I'm also reminded of the "golden calf" that was created 
 MT> and worshiped by a rebellious group are the base of Mount Sinai 
 MT> while Moses was away.  He later came down with commandments etched 
 MT> in stone.   

Apparently, it was only a minority who took part in creating and
worshipping the "golden calf", and the calf was destroyed & the
worshippers dealt with before it became widespread or compulsory.

In a similar way, the second beast (False Prophet) says to humans
that they should make an image to the beast (Antichrist) which had
the wound & did live. This is the "permissive" language being used
today, where people "will be able" / "enabled" / "permitted" to do
their banking & commerce, voting etc "online instead of inline"
etc. The compulsion comes later, after a "critical mass" of people 
have "opted in" voluntarily.

Now, in Revelation 13:14, the people make the image to the beast,
but in 13:15 it is the second beast who has the power to give life
to the image of the beast, that it can both speak, and cause those
that do not worship the image to be killed. It implies something
more than simply televising an animated image, or a hologram, but
that the image is literally alive, can speak, and can cause people
to be killed. It could be one of the DARPA-style warfighting robots,
or a development of them, but these don't need a "second beast"
with superhuman powers to give them life (?).

 MT> This prompts thoughts about the stone cut from a mountain without 
 MT> hands which figures in Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Daniel 2).  This  
 MT> stone strikes at the base of a towering figure in Nebuchadnezzar's 
 MT> dream and causes it to crumble.  The stone then grows in size until
 MT> it becomes a great mountain that "fills the whole earth."  Daniel 
 MT> interprets this stone as a kingdom which God will set up, a kingdom
 MT> which shall never be destroyed, a kingdom that shall stand forever.

 MT> Maybe we can talk about that "stone" and the kingdom when we turn 
 MT> our attention to the Temple Mount and the building of temples.   

SA> ... there are two sets of markings, sealings, or numberings to  
SA> take place.  

 MT> The marks, seals, numbering of the people is often linked to the 
 MT> hands and foreheads.  Here are a few related passages: 

 MT> Exodus 13:9 
 MT> Exodus 13:16 
 MT> Deuteronomy 6:8 
 MT> Deuteronomy 11:18 
 MT> Revelation 7:3 
 MT> Revelation 14:1 

 MT> Perhaps you're more interested in focusing on the "mark of the
 MT> beast"  referenced in Revelation 13?  It's in Revelation 13:16-17
 MT> where you   find reference to a mark received in the forehead or
 MT> the right hand,  without which no man can buy or sell, lest he have
 MT> the name of the  beast or the number of his name.  Whatever that
 MT> means, eh?  :-)   
 MT> Revelation 13:18, in the King James version, gives the number of
 MT> the  beast as "six hundred threescore and six."  The very next
 MT> entry is   Revelation 14:1 which speaks of "an hundred forty and
 MT> four thousand,  having his Father's name written in their
 MT> foreheads." 
 MT>  
 MT> Turning our attention back to all of this writing upon or in
 MT> foreheads,  I was wondering if you were familiar with this passage:
 MT>  
 MT>  Among the signs of the Hour will be the emergence of a beast   
 MT> from the earth. It will be very strange in appearance, and   
 MT> extremely huge; one cannot even imagine what it will look like.   
 MT> It will emerge from the earth and shake the dust from its head.   
 MT> It will have with it the ring of Solomon and the rod of Moses.   
 MT>  People will be terrified of it and will try to run away, but they 
 MT>   will not be able to escape, because such will be the decree of
 MT> Allah.    
 MT>  It will destroy the nose of every unbeliever with the rod, and   
 MT> write the word "Kafir" on his forehead; it will adorn the face of  
 MT> every believer and write the word "Mu'min" (true believer) on   
 MT> his forehead, and it will speak to people. 
 MT>  
 MT> http://members.lycos.co.uk/yusufsdomain/judgment10.html#1 
 MT>  
 MT> I'm trying to put together a set of correspondences given my
 MT> limited  understanding of the subjects.  It's not easy.  Maybe
 MT> someone can help.  Here's what I'm working with: 
 MT>  
 MT> Similarities between legends involving the golem of Judaism,   the
 MT> Apocalyptic vision of the "beast" in the Bible, and the end-time 
 MT> scenario involving the Dijjal and "beast" in the Koran. 

I did pursue the Dajjal some time ago, & one variant spelling (Deggial),
but not Dijjal, which threw up a bit more homework :)

 MT> golem           emet  (truth)          met  (death) 
 MT>  
 MT> Old Testament   tav (righteous         death 
 MT>                 in Jerusalem) 
 MT>  
 MT> New Testament   X or + (believer)      mark of the beast 
 MT>                 Christ, Messiah        name of the beast 
 MT>                 Father's name          number of his name 
 MT>                 Savior                  
 MT>  
 MT> Koran           mu'min (believer)      kfr, kafir (non-believer)   


Cheers, Steve..

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 * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.thebbs.org (3:800/432)