Text 4133, 423 rader
Skriven 2008-03-22 00:24:20 av Janis Kracht (1:261/38)
   Kommentar till text 4042 av CAROL SHENKENBERGER (1:123/140)
Ärende: Dogs and food
=====================
Hi Carol!

> -> > Ok!  I'll be looking!

> Got'em!  Sorry, I am so far behind just now, it was easier to skip over
> here to Docs for a second and catch a few criticals.

Understand :)

> I have my 'murder board' tomorrow for JCFNO Watch Officer.  That won't mean
> much but it's *big stuff*.  It's why I am behind.  Been studying my butt
> off and more to go tonight, then pending how that pre-board goes, lots more
> all weekend.

Hope it went well today.. Good luck with the rest over the weekend as well
since here's hoping you did well <g>

> -> I just sent some, so hopefully you'll get them soon (grin)

> -> a bedframe and just eh.. pass it out (grin) so it's obviously not
> _always_ true

> Same with Cash apparently.  Short version, Pedigree wet=good, pedigree or
> eukanaba dry = good.  Seriously high protein low fiber for *Cash* = bad.
> Something about stomach/digestive system being wrong.  Mentioned to us
> 'he's not a whippet, so never try to feed him like one or he will get very
> sick'.

Yes, I had a dog like that once as well.. that was our chow-chow.. did you ever
see one of those dogs?  They have purple tongues like bears (the most
incredible thing to see), short, stocky legs and body.. but packed muscle..
square nose/jaw.. they were chinese fighting dogs way way back.. When
overbreeding made them vicious, they got a very bad rap, but a few bites on the
judges at the dog shows caused the breeders to change the way they were
breeding them.. most are more friendly now (from what I understand <bg>).
Anyway, they also couldn't eat high protein low fiber.. something to do with
their gut.. She was a real sweetheart.. looked like a lion with the classic
chow-chow mane of hair.. solid black.. beautiful girl :)

> -> > I mix a pedigree brand 13oz wet, 1/2 can each meal, with his dry
> kibble. When
> -> > I dont, I use a bit of stock and now (vet said olive oil just like
> you!) to
> ->
> -> :)

> Ok, main vet trip was today.  Last one the 'opening' was because the main
> fellow who deals with the dogs who have medical conditions (heart problems
> etc) had something special and was out for the say, so Cash was reviewed by
> a vet who is cool, but a cat and *small breed* dog (Pekes etc).  He was
> able to tell us much but the main appointment was maintained.  Good thing
> too as quite a bit changed from what i posted here.

Ah.. that is important.. :)

> Olive oil, nice but not essential in his specific case.  Coat very healthy
> and she (his main vet is a she, works LARGE dogs and special medical cases,
> heart patients etc).  She said in shed season, add 1 TB per meal as it will
> help him pass any 'fur' he licks up.

Yes, that's true, it will do that :)  Boy do I hate when dogs start hacking
 <grin>

> -> > the dry.  He looked over the dashi and said 1/4 cup is fine if he
> likes it.
> -> > It's far lower sodium than most of the folks insist on using for
> 'canned
> -> > broth'.
> ->
> -> Yeah, would seem so :)

> Female vet validates this totally.  I brought the box in with me so she
> could check the label.  She was amused that a family recently moved from
> Japan, would think of Dashi to wet the dry food a bit after a minor
> constipation incident.  Said we have good instincts to keep it all low
> sodium.

True, Some might not consider that for their animals.. but it stands to reason
that it would be important for them just like it is for us..

> -> > Oh, Cash got in early yesterday withthe vet.  Don had to walk him up
> (about 2
> -> > miles each way but nice weather).
> ->
> -> That's a good walk :)  I envy your 70's :) :)

> Real lady vet, said not to do that again just now.  Cash's heart has taken
> a hit with the heart worms.  He is now pending another 'active or inactive'
> test.  The first vet (and I) knew no better than to take the word of the
> foster parents that he is no longer infectious.  She said 'hold your
> horses, I wanna check that again'.  If he shows positive, I have to bring
> in Daisy (cat) right away and i guess I'm gonna pay for Technic since they
> were allowed to play last night.

Oh, that's sad.. I guess I figured the place where you got Cash would have had
extensive testing done to make sure that he was not infections any longer
before allowing him to be adopted.. Well, perhaps they did, and your vet will
find out that he's fine with her test.. we can hope.

> Cash's heart skips some beats.  It may be a forever thing.  (We aint dumb,
> we looked that up before taking him).  She revalidates, do NOT jog with
> this dog.  Do not let him get too excited running around.  A few jogs in
> our backyard running after a ball is ok, but not more than 5 mins and watch
> his breathing.  Do not walk him to school and back just now, due to the
> females in heat he has to pass by.  (too much excitement).  Under NO
> circumstances let him escape to 'breed' as he'd not be up to it.

Oh boy.. that is sad.  Well, you should definitely come over to DogHouse and
talk to Richard Webb... he had a dog with heartworm for a number of years.. was
sad as well, but the dog made it through Katrina. A fighter I would imagine
:)


> Big change here.  They were calibrating the scale as I left (I didnt know
> that).  Today, they were calling several critical folks back in.  The scale
> was off big time.  The amount to gain fortunately is pretty much the same.

> Keep in mind please when you read this, Cash is *not* purebred beagle but a
> mix.

> Cash on the calibrated scale (now tested and very accurate) is 41.5 lbs.
> His weight in November07, was 35 per the records they now have (and which I
> now have a copy of).  At that stage, he was severely underweight per the
> vet.  At his current stage, he still is by at least 2 lbs and once he gains
> those, she will reassess to see if he needs *more*.  She said he might even
> be at 'perfect health for body type' at 50lbs but suspects someplace
> between 43 and 44 just now.  She has to see where the gained weight lands
> on him to be able to tell.  His back hips are fine but quite thin.  The
> rest of his build, she says is an amazing combination she can best relate
> to english bulldog (those are taller, 15 inch or so ones).  She is familiar
> with that breed just like i am, and for the reason that she is the vet who
> deals with most of the local dogs (and the little breeders here across the
> street).  No one can know for sure, but she wanted us that *if* she is
> right, Cash will not be a long lived fellow especially if he has heart
> damage, and is as closely genetic to the bulldog as she suspects.  English
> bulldogs she said are 7-9 years.  Local ones seem a bit longer lived in our
> area, but none are old enough to be over 6 that she treats.

I'm sure that whatever time you have with him will be great.. It must be rough
for you to hear that news from your vet though, I'd bet..

> Chest measures and several other things done to determine what I by eyeball
> 'suspected someplace' but did not mention to her, came out to be far more
> telling than I expected.  No one can know for sure, but grandpa might have
> been a larger breed bulldog, with pa being a larger scent hound likely and
> beagle 'looks' at first glance are not accurate though nature of his
> actions seem very typical to 'beagle'.  I've mentioned several times he is
> a large mixed beagle of the 'muscular sort'.

Yep :) :)

> Now, by second guessing, we can make some basic guesses as to why.  She
> grinned when I said looks a little foxhound but only because he's so tall,
> yet the build is bigger chested by far.

I'll have to look up foxhounds .. I think I know what kind you mean there...

> -> > right.  Also said, 1 cup (mixed like we are) and 1 cup at night (also
> -> > and 6 'treat doggies biscuits' (vice our 3 broke in half) is right.

> She said, keep this up, consider any low salt 'treats' in mid-day up to 1/2
> cup as 'fair game' but aim to gain about 1/2 lb a month at this stage
> though she wont freak if he gains a whole lb.  Bring him in every 2 weeks
> just to load him on the scale. (something was wrong with it but they fixed
> it and we just didnt know at that time on first weigh, nor had we asked or
> we would have been told I suspect).

So they'll keep their eye on his weight.. that's good.

> -> > Also vet figured out left distal leg is *faintly* shorter and almost
> sure to
> -> > be genetic which was one query (may not have posted here) trainer had
> to have
> -> > his hips checked.  Nothing wrong.  Ttainer and hubby both right
> though, that
> ->
> -> That's good!

> Yup, and age now more solid.  She said it's not unusual for others to have
> assumed he ws as much as 4.5 years old (one record said that) because his
> first glance looks are 'beagle' and he's huge for the breed.  She cant be
> sure, but she thinks just under 2YO.  Don was guessing nearing 3.  Teeth
> pattern shows just under 2.  Her assement is 'gawky teenager', doesnt have
> full fill out of muscular growth.

haha.. I remember when Priscilla and her sister Midnight were just two years
old.. They were the ultimate teenagers <laugh>.. very bad girls too.. ate
_everything_ in sight.. walls, floors.. you name it <bg> But they were soooo
cute <grin>

> Naw, may have been kicked hard in the ribs.  Scatter patern of scars she
> says, hunting dog.  May have been kicked by a deer or something.  Human
> would have left 2-3 ribs damaged, not just one.  He will need xrays so we
> have the max 35$ a month plan on him. (Xrays covered).  Needs them anyway
> over heart/chest issues.  She cant give us a solid plan for his long term
> health without more data.

Right.. that makes sense..

> -> > Will do!  Now if work hours do not change!
> ->
> -> I hope they don't so you have plenty of time with him :)

> Being really senior enlisted has some definate advantages.  I *told* the
> Chief who will cover for me, the dates of Cash's appointments and that i
> need him those times.  Before any get upset, I also let my folks who work
> for me, use the same pattern or cover for them myself.  If it's needed for
> me, it is for them.  (grin, the folks who work for me like me).

That is so neat.. I'm really glad it's working out so well :)

> Yeah, we are not to take Cash in the front yard now per specialist vet.  He
> hasnt been fixed.  He needs no heart strain.  Later when tests are back,
> normal 'cardio' training is good but wait for tests and a developed plan.

I can understand that.. it's like any injury.. This one is in his heart
muscle..

> -> That's good :) :)  You don't want him taking off on you after women
> (laugh)

> Hehe same comment she made.  She added one we would not have known.  If
> 'pink boy' shows, put him in his quiet den (crate) for about 15 mins.
> Especially if he starts licking 'pink boy' ;-)  (I hope I was circumspect
> enough for here!  I promise, will shift to the DOGHOUSE echo fast as i can
> add it!)

Lol, probably a good idea :)  I mentioned to Richard that you'd be coming by :)

> (on small family breeders, just simple and well raised)

> -> They're the nicest breeders usually :)

> I agree in general.  I saw one as a kid, who raised Saint Bernards though
> who I shudder at.

There are always going to be losers, at any trade.. but there are plenty of
good people who do it right too :)

>  The folks across the street though? *Well* raised, well
> socialized, healthy as the breed can be, with vet records and shots and all
> that.  I'm not sure what age puppies are normally 'house trained' (just I
> am dumb and never looked it up) but these fellows are pretty much there by
> 8-10 weeks before they are adopted out.

Well, let's see.. of the dogs I have bought from breeders (not pet stores),
there were three of them.. The first one was our German Shepherd, Rhema.. She
was 8 weeks old, not trained at all, but it took her all of a day or two to get
the hang of going outside (shepherds are really smart <grin>).  The second one
was funny.. it was in Louisville, when we bought Priscilla and Midnight.. After
I had them home for a day or so, I called the breeder and said, I don't know
what's wrong with them, they keep whining and crying and pawing at me.. I told
her I made sure they had mushy puppy food as she'd indicated I should give
them, water, plenty of clean paper on the floor, anything I could think of they
might want.. what could the problem be??? She said, 'Um.. Mrs.K, the puppies
want to go outside... they're already trained to use a dog door' :) :) I was a
little embarrased <bg> They were also about  7 weeks old IIRC.. The other one
was the one we bought Toby from.. This guy was also in Louisville but turned
out not to be as neat as that first lady we'd gotten Priscilla and Midnight
from.. (I called her to see if she had puppies after Midnight died, but she
didn't :( )  Anyway, this guy had his puppies out for sale the day they were 6
weeks old.. to the day.. you don't usually see that... I mean these puppies
were barely weaned it seemed... in the end we never got Toby's paper's either..
quite a ripoff for what was supposed to be a pedigreed dog with testing done
for various disease/problems, etc... :(  So far he hasn't had any problems
though so we're happy at least.  If we were going to breed him we'd have been
more upset most likely.

> -> around here? :) :)  I'll have to pay more attention to the howls around
> me :)

> My best guess on what I hear?  If all the others stop for a second to hear
> the 'big cheese' then wait a slightly respectful moment then chime in, that
> one they wait for is the 'alpha barker'.  When Cash does start, all else
> *goes silent* tl he is done then they all chime in with some dropping back
> then back in when it's their turn in the barking sequence heirarchy.
> Little yippy ones, never count. ;-)

Lol :)

> Be at ease though, Cash is not a 'barker' nor does he disrupt the
> neighborhood. It's rare when he makes his voiuce heard and all else 'pauses
> in awe' then chimes in.  He has never 'bayoooed' inside or even in the back
> yard though he may pause to 'listen' in both places.

That's good :)  Over here, my idiots bark at every bird that goes by Lol or it
seems that way Lol

> Sadly, not at all just now and have to make sure they are just quietly
> communing later for a bit.  Cash's heart cant handle major excitement.
> Technic is sorta like a 45lb peke with short hair and on speed ;-)  We love

Oh, I know the type.. :)

> Technic but the only way to make him sleep instead of jumping around, is a
> sledgehammer.

Yes, it's the nature of some dogs to be that way..Sadly Cash will have to avoid
Technic at least for a few months.. hopefully if he does, he'll recover enough
so you won't have to worry quite so much about it.


> Horrible group, or at least horrible to me.  Terrible advice.  Get this,
> the female vet said 'you happen to be cshenk'?  she reads it but will not
> reply there.  Wow.  Yes, I said. She said my instincts are excellent and
> they are total idiots.  She was considering making her first reply there to
> the bozos as the vet who *cares* for that english bulldog pair and their
> 'kids'.  She tagged in the name of Cash to me <g>.  She lurks there to keep
> abreast of the stupid advice her dog owners might be getting.

Too much :) :)

> She was not amused at all once she saw Cash and recalled the 1/4 cup total
> per feeding with 2 feedings a day and was very very glad we blew them off
> right away.

Right, she was probably ready to kill about then :) :)

> Smile, so nice to have your *vet* validate you isnt it?

Oh yeah :)

> -> > I was suddenly responsible for every woe they had ever heard of, was

> This is why she's about to possibly post with a nome-de-plume.  Huge number
> of assumptions, all dead wrong.

Yep..

> Say for example, your two labs had a puppy set and ou responsibly raised
> the pups then let them go to new homes.  Presume they had health checks to
> make sure they were ok as a breeding pair and the pups were checked.  There
> is nothing wrong with this.  Newsgroup would rip you apart.

It's like anything else on the internet.. you take it with a grain of salt.. at
least that's what I do.. <grin>

> -> >> Oh man.. just starve the dog, why don't ya... I mean, when did she
> feed him
> -> >> more than that?  god,  I cannot believe that one.

> Yeah, well Cash is close to your labs on size though shorter <g>

hehe.. well, he may be in length.. he probably is :)  Though Priscilla is a big
lab in length and height.. Toby is a smaller one in length and height.. funny
too since he's a male.. different breeders though. She's overweight now at
about 120+ lbs, and he's just right at about 100 lbs.. but he's packed solid..
she's definitely gained weight since getting fixed :( She's on diet dog food,
but you know, it doesn't help the dog to lose weight when she eats her dog food
and his too :) :) :)

> Got a special one from the vet.  Comes in packs of 30 and not a choking
> hazard as the pattern they come off with, doesnt lead to that.  9$ for 30
> and he loves them.  The vet treats LARGE dogs and knows what is needed
> here.  (It was funny to see Cash almost able to walk under the bellys of
> the others in the waiting room, bull mastiffs and a absolutely *beautiful*
> Irish Wolfhound, as well as many rotts and such and a few cowed looking
> shepards among the 'big boys').  Anyways, you still supervise with these,
> but that's a legal 'thing'.

Sounds like a dog show sometimes  haha.. I know what you mean though..
sometimes visits to the vet are so neat just to see the other dogs (g)

> -> Lol.. what a trip.. yes, I am glad you left that group in the dust where
> they
> -> belong :) :)

> Hehe Vet said it was the worst possible one to use of all of them.

Yep.. most definitely.

> -> > Grr.  Well, nuff said.  We all gotta rant sometimes <g>

> Sorry.  We all gotta now and again!

> -> > I wish Fido still had a pet echo.  I'd me all over it just now.
> ->
> -> We do have DOGHOUSE :)  C'mon over.. I post there sometimes :) There are
> a few
> -> of us addicts there :)  All we need now is meow echo haha  I'd start
> one.. :)

> Expect a new member real soon!  Warn'em to expect me and i plan to use the
> one for cats and dogs, living in sin together <g>.

> (ON Cash and Daisy)

haha.. I'll try to get an echo listed this weekend.. should be able to do it
tomorrow..

>> Totally relaxed I guess :) :)

> -> > Saw her use him as a stepping stool to get all the way down.  I
> suspect he
> -> > knows his place <g>.  Cats rule, dogs drool.
> ->
> -> Lol, that's it exactly :)

> Yeah well as of 5 mins ago, she figured out he was feeling a bit low
> (several shots, kinda like you and me feel after a flu shot for the next
> day). He's laying on the sofa snoozilating. (between awake and snoozing).
> She's watching over him from above and purring.  She used him as a step
> stool to get up there with a gentle purr brief 'nuzzle' (got a lazy lick)
> and now is watching.

Lol.. I can just see it :)  too cool ;)

> Life is real good here <g>.

:)

> Oh darn!  Did we mention food?  (scanned up, yeah!).  Hope we arent boring
> anyone and i'll shift the main stuff to 'Doghouse' shortly now that I know
> about 'em!

Good idea.. promise we'll go there after you read this one :)  don't reply here
:) :) :)

Take care,
Janis

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