Text 22334, 116 rader
Skriven 2012-03-12 22:32:58 av HAP NEWSOM (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av GLEN JAMIESON
Ärende: SILENT SERVICE 20311
============================
Howdy Glen!

-> 
->  ->  -> And now they are talking about replacements.  Suggestions that
we
->  ->  -> should buy US, Brit or French nuclear subs have been countered
by
->  ->  -> comments that they are all too big, and can't operate in
shallow,
->  ->  -> littoral waters.  Only smaller, non-nuclear submarines can go 
there.
->  ->  -> 
->  ->  HN> There is a lot of discussion in the 
->  ->  HN> Submarine community on just that 
->  ->  HN> subject. There is a powerful lobby
->  ->  HN> in Aus that wants to build them
->  -> They claim that we have learnt a lot of lessons from building the
->  -> Collins, and now we could do a better job.
->  ->
->  HN> As they say, "talk is cheap",
->  HN> and your track record carries
->  HN> a lot of weight.
-> 
-> There have been many problems, some of which have been the
-> electronics of overseas design.
->  
->  ->  HN> the US boats spent more time in
->  ->  HN> "shallow" ops than in deep ops! 
->  -> 
->  -> "Shallow" is relative.  According to what I have read of the
->  -> discussions, even the 5500t French Barracuda class, with 8.8 m beam 
is
->  -> considered too large to operate in littoral (brown) waters.  Only
->  -> smaller, non-nuclear subs fit this role.  They have to be capable of
->  -> operating at only 2 knots above an irregular seabed, or sit on the
->  -> bottom for extended periods.  They also have to be capable of long
->  -> distance travel, and be cheap enough for Australia to afford.  They
->  -> say a nuclear sub would cost as much as several conventional ones.
->  ->
->  HN> US nuclear attack subs have worked in littoral 
->  HN> waters for years. However I would not recommend
->  HN> them as a regular diet. I suppose it would also
->  HN> depend on the river as well. Some are wide and 
->  HN> deep enough that many boats could navigate 
->  HN> them with out being detected. 
->  
->  -> And, of course, above all else, politics comes into it.
->  -> 
->  HN> No getting around that...which may mean
->  HN> the OZ navy will be once again saddled
->  HN> with a sub that it's difficult to even 
->  HN> get a crew to man her. As it is the 
->  HN> Collins class boats have a hard time
->  HN> getting people to volunteer to crew them.
-> 
-> If all the Collins boats were in working order at the same time, there
-> would not be enough crews to man them.
->
And so far that has never happened.
  
->  ->  HN> However if it were ME making the
->  ->  HN> purchase...I'd be looking at the
->  ->  HN> Swedish boats..specifically the
->  ->  HN> Gotland class boats, with air
->  ->  HN> independent propulsion. There's
->  ->  HN> not much of a need for huge 
->  ->  HN> range and those dang boats are
->  ->  HN> very VERY quiet!
->  -> 
->  -> Long range may not be needed in Sweden, but Australia is bigger,
much
->  -> bigger.  And the Pacific Ocean is rather empty.
->  ->
->  HN> I said there's not much need for 
->  HN> a huge range, not that the boats
->  HN> are not capable of it. They run
->  HN> significantly slower on the 
->  HN> surface than submerged but can 
->  HN> do a good 20 knots per hour when
->  HN> running submerged. And they are 
->  HN> still some of the most "undetectable"
->  HN> boats in the water these days. 
->  HN> And you're gonna have to make up
->  HN> your mind mate...if you're gonna 
->  HN> run them as brown water boats
->  HN> or deep sea boats? The Gotlands
->  HN> can do both, but they are not 
->  HN> designed to be deep water boats
->  HN> primarily. Provisions for the 
->  HN> crew would be a bigger factor 
->  HN> than the range of the boat itself.
-> 
-> Can you drag a trawl net with those boats?  Lots of prawns in the
-> waters around Australia to feed the crew.
->
The biggest problem with the coastal 
waters of OZ, are two fold...clear
water makes hiding difficult, and 
all those dang coral reefs make 
navigation a bugaboo! Many subs
have capabilities to "launch" divers
so you would not need a net!
 
-> Ship building is not doing well in Eastern Australia, but in the West
-> they are building large, 40 knot catamaran transports for the US Navy,
-> using a factory in USA to complete the first order of 12.
->

That would be AUSTAL...and they have 
shipyards in the USA as well, Norfolk
for one I think and I think the other
is on the gulf coast somewhere
chat with you soon!
ha
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Fidonet Since 1991 And Still Here. Join Us: www.DocsPl (1:123/140)