Text 31323, 118 rader
Skriven 2012-03-19 14:49:00 av Glen Jamieson (9191.cooking)
     Kommentar till en text av Hap Newsom
Ärende: SILENT SERVICE 20319
============================
 -=> Quoting Hap Newsom to Glen Jamieson <=-

 ->  -> My personal view is that Australia doesn't need submarines.  Any
 ->  -> seaborne invasion force would be detected long before arrival, and
 ->  -> dealt with by air or surface defence.  Considering the most recent
 ->  -> naval skirmish, in the Falklands, were submarines used?  I think it
 ->  -> was all aircraft and ship to ship missiles.
 ->  ->
 ->  HN> Any seaborne invasion force would already
 ->  HN> have prepared defenses for air and surface
 ->  HN> attacks. It is much harder to defend against
 ->  HN> an unseen attacker who can attack anywhere along
 ->  HN> the route, and possibly remain undetected after
 ->  HN> the attack as well.

Have submarines taken part in a defensive way during the last 60
years?  German and Japanese boats were very effective at sinking
transport ships in the N Atlantic and Australian E Coast, and they
contributed to the attack on Pearl Harbour, torpedoing several ships.

From what I have read, the Brits used submarines for clandestine
delivery and pick-up of spies and secret agents at night, to France.
Their invisibility enabled that function to be done effectively.

 -> That makes my point that a submarine is primarily an offensive weapon.
 -> During WW2 over 40 ships were sunk by Japanese submarines along the
 -> Australian East coast, and some towns shelled, but of course that was
 -> never publicised at the time.  The ferry sunk in Sydney Harbour could
 -> hardly be kept secret, though.  As I do not think that Australia has

 HN> Every "weapon" is both defensive and
 HN> offensive. If you had subs defending your
 HN> coast in WWII you'd have used them "defensively".

All the attacks on Australia were by submarines and aircraft.

As far as I know, Australia has had submarines in its Navy since 1914.
Interesting point; how does sub vs sub work?

 ->  HN> All the more reason to go with a 
 ->  HN> boat that has a proven track record
 ->  HN> of success. 
 -> Or not to waste money on something not needed.
 ->
 HN> Well you're certainly entitled to that 
 HN> opinion...and maybe you can convince your
 HN> government to accept that plan.
 HN> Good luck with that by the way! (grin)

My government is more concerned with how many jobs they can boast
about creating from building subs than whether they are of any use
once finished.  By those standards, the Collins has been an
outstanding success, as the building time has gone on and on!!
 
 ->  ->  -> Ship building is not doing well in Eastern Australia, but in the
 ->  ->  -> they are building large, 40 knot catamaran transports for the US 
 ->  -> 
 ->  ->  HN> That would be AUSTAL...and they have 
 ->  ->  HN> shipyards in the USA as well, Norfolk
 ->  ->  HN> for one I think and I think the other
 ->  ->  HN> is on the gulf coast somewhere

Mobile.

 ->  HN> They are also building other craft
 ->  HN> as well, teaming up with Northrup Grummond I think.
 -> 
 -> "Northrop Grumman"

There is quite a lot on Wiki about that relationship.

 -> What do US Navy people think of the non-traditional Austal design of
 -> the LCSs and JHSVs?  They seem to be far more successful here than the
 -> dreaded Collins.  I read that when the first of those large trimarans
 -> appeared in the distance near Timor some of the locals thought it was
 -> some sort of sea monster.  I was in Darwin when one of them docked
 -> there, and it is certainly weird looking.
 ->
 HN> I can't answer for what the US Navy thinks
 HN> but nothing sways opinion like success. And 
 HN> the fact that the Navy has ordered the ships
 HN> makes me think they like em at least a wee  bit!

As far as I have heard our military like them, as the multi-hull
design allows them to keep going at 40 knots (not "per hour"!) in
quite heavy seas.

MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05
 
      Title: Bistro Steak Subs
 Categories: Grill, Beef, Sandwiches
      Yield: 4 Servings
 
  1 1/2 lb Boneless beef sirloin steak
      1    French bread
           Lettuce leaves
      1    Roasted red peppers
    3/4 ts Garlic salt
    1/2 c  Jalepeno pepper
           - Monterey Jack
           Mild giardiniera, if desired
 
  Place beef steak on grid over ash-covered medium coals; grill 16 to 21
  minutes for medium-rare to medium doneness, turning once. Line bottom
  of bread with lettuce; top evenly with pepper strips. Carve steak
  into thin slices; season with garlic salt.  Arrange over peppers; top
  with cheese. Close sandwich; cut into 4 to 6 portions.  Serve with
  giardiniera, if desired. From: Dan Klepach Date: 08-14 Cooking
  From: Dale Shipp Date: 12-11-11
 
MMMMM
 

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