Text 748, 79 rader
Skriven 2004-11-10 21:40:00 av Tinyurl.Com/uh3t (1:278/230)
Ärende: Re: Metabolism Forced
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> From: tomhendricks474@cs.com (TomHendricks474)
(Regarding other sources of energy except the Sun)
> remember the chart is so very miniscule as to be mostly unimportant)

Remember my rebuttal to the chart: Only energy of the type that
disrupts molecules, producing ions or fragments from them, is of any
consequence in starting abiotic chemical reactions. Most of the Sun's
energy is iR, and most of the rest is visible light, neither of which
usually disrupts molecules. Your chart counts all forms of energy as
ths same, which is irrelevant to this topic of starting abiotic
chemical reactions. You need re-do the chart, excluding IR and visible
light, including only the UV from the Sun to compare with the other
sources of energy.

(Regarding the Sun:)
> was cyclical enough and non random enough to adapt to

Prior to the first replicator, how would anything adapt? I'm aware of
only two ways of adaption: An individual creature of sufficient
capability can deliberately adapt, such as an animal shedding feathers
or fur during hot months and building a nest or den during cold months.
A replicator can make many copies, with variation, and these can be
selected (some live and some die), and as a result Darwinian evolution
can occur over the generations. Neither of these would occur in the
prebiotic prereplicator ocean. What other mechanism do you propose by
which molecules can adapt to the Sun cycle?

>> There's no compartmentation, no variation in heritability, just this
>> replicator making more copies of itself at an exponential rate. Since
>> the thing being catalyzed is the catalyst itself, there's only one
>> thing going on,
> Which is what a ribozyme is - yet that is not enough.

A ribozyme is just one of many ideas for what such a bare replicator
might be. Do you have any argument to support your claim that a bare
replicator is impossible (can't be successful), or specifically a
ribozyme can't successfully replicate?

> The replication was all just a way to survive the heat cycle THEN,
> not to get to us NOW.

I'm not sure what you're saying there. Do you mean to say that some
Creator deliberately manufactured a replicator so that it could survive
the heat cycle, or do you mean that single molecules are conscious
beings themselves and decided they wanted to survive the heat cycle so
they made every effort to do so, or that some sort of replication was
already going on and that replication had variation which allowed
Darwinian evolution to occur to thereby get better and better (over the
generations) at surviving the heat cycle, or what?

Do you merely mean to say that at that time there was no looking
forward to how things would be today, and it's only chance that things
eventually turned out the way they are now instead of any of a
gazillion other ways they might have turned out? Or do you mean there
is no possible evolutionary path from the first replicator to where we
are today so it's impossible for the early replicator to evolve to how
things are today?

>> Has anybody ever run a Urey-Miller kind of experiment
>> where there is *no* input of ionizing or chemical-breaking-apart
>> energy, merely a smooth temperature cycling over a reasonable range
>> (say from near freezing of water to near boiling of water)? I predict
>> such an experiment could run for an indefinite time and still not
>> produce amino acids or anything else interesting. Do you disagree?
> As I've said before the M-U experiment work well with the sun/uv
> alone.

But UV is chemical-breaking-apart/ionizing radiation. If you include
*only* the IR/visible part of Solar energy, no UV at all, would the M-U
experiment still produce amino acids? You didn't answer that question.
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