Text 12578, 208 rader
Skriven 2005-09-22 11:05:17 av Roy Witt (1:1/22)
Kommentar till text 12532 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Cell phone cost
=======================
22 Sep 05 11:56, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:
MvdV>>>>> Why were they shooting in the first place?
>>>> Apparently to protect their personal property from looters.
MvdV>>> They mistook people in US army iniforms for looters? Yeah
MvdV>>> right...
>> Ummm, Army, Police...yes they did. Of course, they won't be
>> making that mistake again. The Army/police shot back and we're
>> less a few criminals now.
MvdV> Now you got me confused. First you say the shooters were innocent
MvdV> people protecting their houses against looters.
Yes, innocent until proven guilty.
MvdV> Now you say they are criminals. What is it?
Both, one before the act, one after the act. But they've entered the third
phase now, they're just plain dead.
MvdV>>>>> One report I heard is that looters lifted all the handguns
MvdV>>>>> from Sears.
>>>> Not very likely.
MvdV>>> Denial isn't a river in Egypt.
>> But it's your middle name. It is very unlikely that they found
>> any firearms at Sears, period.
MvdV> So here you say Sears sell no fire arms. Noted.
I didn't say that. They do sell rifles and shotguns. They don't sell hand
guns. What rifle and shotgun inventory they have must be locked up when
they're not on display.
MvdV>>> When was the last time you were in New Orlaens?
>> I don't have to be in NO to know what Sears' policy on firearms is.
MvdV> Why do they have a policy on firearms if theuy do not sell any?
See above.
>> I have a Sears store right here in my own community.
MvdV> Which as you claim does not sell firearms. One can not lock up what
MvdV> one does not have.
See above.
>> If they lock the firearms up here, then they lock them up in NO.
MvdV> I never claimed they were not locked up. The report said they were
MvdV> looted. No mention about locking oir not locking.
All liberal news reporting *always* fails to inform the public of reality.
Besides, anyone who's familiar with US firearm laws, knows they were
locked up, or supposed to be. If the person in charge of those firearms
didn't lock them up, then his butt will be in the ringer. If they find a
damaged gun safe, then we'll know he did his job and there was a criminal
element involved. (we've already been there)
>>>> But, before you open your mouth with erroneous information; The
>>>> Federal gun laws in the US require each and every Federally
>>>> Licensed Gun Dealer to lock up his firearm inventory before closing.
MvdV>>> And of course the looters respected the locks and made no attempt
MvdV>>> to forcibly enter....
>> If they wern't professional burglers, they know they'd never
>> break into a safe.
MvdV> Who said anything about a safe?
I did. A firearms dealer has to observe that requirement by the BATF in
order to keep his firearms resale license.
>>>> I would assume that happened at every gun store in NO, before
>>>> anyone evacuated.
MvdV>>> ASS u me.
>> You can make an ass of yourself, but those gun store owners
>> wouldn't have.
MvdV> In the panic of evacuation? Strange things happen in a panic
MvdV> siutuation.
There was plenty of time to evacuate. No panic there.
>>>> The requirements for the safes that they are to be held in are
>>>> such that no oridinary person could open them.
MvdV>>> Under normal curcimstances.
>> Under any circumstances, they'd lock them up.
MvdV> I was refererring to the "no ordinairy person could open them"
MvdV> part.
Oh, I'm sure that some criminal would have a supply of plastic explosive,
nitro or dynamite to get around the lock mechanism. Course, he'd have to
have some electricty available to drill the holes required to place the
charges. Not impossible I guess, considering that Sears also sells
portable generators. But, holding his breath under water long enough to
drill those holes might be a problem, unless he made a visit to the scuba
department. Of course, that must be why those houses were burning and no
explosions were heard at the time.
>> Don't forget, there were 3 days from the time they were told to
>> evacuate before the hurricane made landfall.
MvdV> Many ignored the evacuation order.
Yeup, to their detriment.
>> Locking them up or loading them up, they'd be reasonably safe from
>> looters.
MvdV> Not if there was no law enforcement around to stop them.
That's all there was in that town and they were able to move about because
they had trasportation.
MvdV>>> That doesn't hold when you can take as much time as you need and
MvdV>>> and make as much noise as you want and no guard or policeman
MvdV>>> comes to disturb you because they all have left.
>> It holds when you can take your time to load or lock them up.
MvdV> No, it does not. Any lock can be broken given enough time.
See above.
>> No rush, as Katrina was 3 or more days away.
>>>> It would take a professional burgler or safe cracker to do so.
MvdV>>> To complete it before the police arrives to stop you. No factor
MvdV>>> is there is no police any more.
>> Factor in that they would have to be a professional, one who knows how
>> to crack a safe.
MvdV> All it needs is time.
And the tools. See above.
>> Frankly, if I were a licensed gun dealer, I'd take my inventory with
>> me when I left.
MvdV> How? In an armoured truck?
Uhaul rents big trucks. So does a dozen other rental companys. Betcha
they'd be glad to get part of their inventory out of the area.
OTH, if it were me, I bought a moving van to move to Texas, and that's
still in my inventory. When the fallout from Rita gets here, it'll make
the river rise and I'll have my van here with a 'For Rent' sign on it.
Those people who live down the road in houses built on the river bank,
will be looking to put their furniture in dry storage before the rising
water gets to their house. A quick $300 for a few days rental time. (btw,
that's the going rate for flood prone areas like that)
MvdV> Where do you get one if one can noit even get transport to get the
MvdV> people out?
MvdV>>>>> An armed society is a polite society? Didn't look that way...
>>>> It's true in Texas. Very friendly people here.
MvdV>>> The people in Belgium are friendly too. And they are not armed.
>> Too bad for them.
MvdV> That is not how they see it.
Just think how sad they'd be if they knew that they were without the
freedom to make that choice.
>>>> Of course, the 'will issue concealed carry permits' law
>>>> didn't have anything to do with that. They were friendly
>>>> before that law was passed.
MvdV>>> So no causal relationship bewteen politeness and being armed.
>> If you're allowed to carry concealed, how would you make the
>> distinction?
MvdV> If carrying concelaed is allowed one knows that the other *might*
MvdV> carry. (and use it)
Google the stats on (Texas, Florida, etc) civil confrontations between
armed citizens and those of a criminal confrontation. There is a
distinction and the requirement to know it is required by law in order to
get a permit to carry. Threatening someone with a firearm is a class A
felony. So is using it without provocation.
But you make a very good point; The criminal knows that the person who
*may* be his next robbery victim, may be carrying and will probably use
it, given the opportunity. It's better to go on to another victim who is
more likely not carrying.
That's why there was a period in Florida history where foriegners on
vacation there were more apt to be robbed than a citizen.
>>>> But, you don't see many altercations on the freeways
>>>> like I've seen in California,
MvdV>>> I have never ever seen a freeway altercation in my life. Of
MvdV>>> course I never was in the USA...
>> Or a freeway.
MvdV> Wrong.
No, right. US freeways aren't the Autobahn. Wish they were, but there are
way too many vehicles in the US on our freeways.
>>>> What we have in NO are people who havn't seen any LEOs for
>>>> quite a few days and who knows what they were thinking when
>>>> they shot at authoritys.
MvdV>>> Whatever the reasons, those pictures do not make a good
MvdV>>> impression on the rest off the world.
>> Why should they? Lawlessness is lawlessness in every civilized
>> country in the world.
MvdV> It is the implicaiton of the presence of that level of lawlessness
MvdV> that makes the bad impression.
Kinda like Bosnia, you mean. NO doesn't include the entire populaton of
this country.
Roy
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* Origin: Hacienda de Rio de Guadalupe * South * Texas, USA * (1:1/22)
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