Text 16754, 145 rader
Skriven 2005-11-21 22:44:32 av Raymond Yates (1:3613/48)
  Kommentar till text 16712 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Collateral Damage
=========================
 MV> Hello Raymond,

 MV>>>>> The satellites will already have spotted the places of unusual
 MV>>>>> acitivity.

 >>>> Unless it looks innocuous. Absent "Ground Truth," buildings
 >>>> look like...buildings.

 MV>>> U=In the middle of desert nowhere? One day the building is there
 MV>>> and the next day it is gone? Does that look innocuous?

 >> Only if it's gone. Suppose it's just deserted. there slot of
 >> building like that i Ira, I have seen the overhead photos

 MV> First you say: bury it in the dessert, now you say empty buildings.
 MV> You can't have it both.

Ok, lets go with buildings for a while.

 MV> If the building still stands, there will be traces of its former use.

There's no guarantee of that, but it's a thought.

 >>>> Have you read the reports?

 MV>>> Not all of it. Just the summaries actually.

 >> Read the reoprts from the troops that found it,

 MV> I don't think I want to waste my precious time on that.

Fine.

 >> when the test-strips tested positve for nerve agents, the
 >> inspectrs calimed otherwise, but the test strips were
 >> double-checked. Insectisides are nerve agents, some of them..

 MV> Insecticides are in wide spread use all over the world. Most of the
 MV> time they are used just for that: to control insects.

And sometimes, they can be used for..

 >>>>>> within the last few weeks In a nutshell it quoted the Duelfer
 >>>>>> an Kay reports, and delineated the items that /were/ found,
 >>>>>> including parts of nuclear enrichment centrifuges,

 MV>>>>> Them aluminium tubes again. Debunked long ago.

 >>>> And later verified /by testing/ that they were more then
 >>>> suitable for centrifuges, by an outside nuclear agency. In
 >>>> France.

 MV>>> You'r clutching at straws....

 >> Not me, I just report facts.

 MV> You are as you say "cherry picking". The IAEA reported that there was
 MV> no nuclear programme in Iraq.

Like they might not be biased some? right now the UN is /not/ on my list of
trustworthy sources for /anything/...

 >> I'm not advocating anything, just saying what's out there.

 MV> What you think is out there. The "official" reports do not confirm it.

Kay and Duelfer were official, and sworn testimony.

 MV>>>>> Every "precursor" for pesticides is also a "precursor' for
 MV>>>>> chemical weapons. Steel for a plow is steel for a sword.

 >>>> Exactly !

 MV>>> So presence of steel is not proof of presence of a sword.

 >> True, but.. when you have a bunker full of "pesticide" placed
 >> next to rocktes capapble of carrying liquid agents,

 MV> I don't know where you got that information. Iraq was not allowed to
 MV> have rockets with a range over 800 km. All the reports confirm that he
 MV> had no long range rockets.

I got that fromthe reports you didn't have time to waste with. the UN
Inspectors also found a few missiles that were of extended range, and the
motors to drive them.

 >> a conclusion could be drawn..

 MV> It could be the wrong conclusion. There can be many an innocent
 MV> explanation.

And some not so. Given who we are dealing with..

 >> "pesticide" does not require it be kept in bombproofs.

 MV> You don't want to leave it lying around where children can play with
 MV> it either. Even if it is just what it says it is: pesticide, you want
 MV> to store it behind locked doors. Maybe the bomb shelter just happened
 MV> to be available.

Possible, but hardly likely.

 MV>>> It looks like we are looking at this from totally different
 MV>>> sides. You seem to believe or at least to have believed at some
 MV>>> time the WMD's existed during or shortly before the invasion.

 >> Based on the troops that had come down with Gulf War Syndrome
 >> after sestroyting munitions in GUlf One, of course.

 MV> Easily attributed to "friendly fire" with depleted uranium ammo...

Notht eh troops that shwed toxin levels and chemical-related problems, no.

 MV>>> I and many, if not most people this side of the pond on the
 MV>>> other hand never believed they were there in the first place.

 >> The where did they all go?

 MV> There is no need to explain the disappereance of what was not there to
 MV> begin with.

But we know he had some, and we aslo know that they can exist for a long time.
Heck, we're still storing weapond from WW1... Edgewood Arsenal, I worked
there.

 MV> Whatever was left of the pre gulf war I period was destroyed in 1991
 MV> or shortly after under supervison of the UN inspectors.

 MV> Hans Blix found nothing.
 MV> Saddam did not use WMD's when he still could if he had them.
 MV> The US army found nothing.
 MV> The US weapon inspectors found nothing

 MV> Ockham's razor tells me there was nothing.

Hans had limited success inspecting everything. The Us Army found things and
were Contradictied by the Inspectors. both of them have only searched limited
areas. I'm for keepin an open mind about this for a while longer.

 MV> Cheers, Michiel

Cheers to you, too !

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 * Origin: Ray's Rocket Shop - Out to Launch (1:3613/48)