Text 16981, 198 rader
Skriven 2005-11-25 17:35:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av WARD DOSSCHE
Ärende: Wars
============
-=> Quoting Ward Dossche to Frank Scheidt <=-

 > That makes no difference to the anti-America crew with their wild
 > ideas.  *Anything* the US does is *bad*.  Anything GWB says is a
 > "lie".
 WD> 
 WD> There's only one country in the world which had a quite successful
 WD> TV-show about its leadership. The TV-show was called "That's my Bush"
 WD> ... made in America, funded by American capital, first broadcast in
 WD> America, ... 

Yeah, so "successful" it was located on a tiny (at that time) TV 
channel, The Comedy Channel.   After a few months it folded ... I 
saw a bit of it ... it was really *stupid* ...

 WD> The most vocal person about GWB is an American: Michael Moore!
 
Most of his statements against the US have been thoroughly 
discredited.

 WD> The most successful anti-GWB person is an American.
 
Who is *that*?  And successful in what way?

 WD> Stand-up commedians in New York are grateful for the material their
 WD> president provides them on a regular basis.

It doesn't matter *who* is president Jay Leno and Dave Letterman 
have their writers come up with some really funny stuff.
 
 WD> I guess you never notice how well the world likes to make fun of other
 WD> leaders as well ... Granny from England and Charlie her son are a
 WD> God-sent present when it comes to that. Our stand-up comedians have a
 WD> field day about our royal household and fill theatres with people just
 WD> on that single subject. Never heard about "The President's brain is
 WD> missing"? Have a guess who that was about... We also thanked the world
 WD> for someone as stupid as Dan Quayle. 

Actually Dan Quayle is quite intelligent.  Here's what typically 
happens, the "news"media will spot some out-of-line action by a 
president or vice president -- almost *always* a Republican 
president since the "news"media are slanted to the liberal side.  
They'll then pound that idea into the ground so often that many 
people will start to believe it.  

One example is Gerald Ford who was depicted as a hopelessly 
clumsy individual, based on one incident -- he stumbled one 
time when getting out of an airplane.  The fact was he was a 
good athlete in college ... to the "news"media, however, he was a 
very clumsy person.

Dan Quayle was pilloried mercilessly for his potato/potatoe 
spelling as though that was extremely important.  Then he 
was ridiculed for allegedly saying he wished he spoke Latin 
so he could converse with the Latin Americans -- not too 
long after *that* came out a reporter *admitted* she had 
made it up on a dull day ... and so it goes.

 WD> And haven't you noticed ... nobody makes jokes about Cheney. There's a
 WD> reason for that ... you like him or you hate him, but he's respected
 WD> all over. 

OK ...

 WD> I suppose you haven't heard that former dictator Pinochet from
 WD> Argentina is only sued in one country worldwide for his crimes against
 WD> humanity ... Belgium ... and that all others, including the mightiest
 WD> country on earth, turn a blind eye. Of course, it's a rarely overlooked
 WD> footnote in world history how Pinochet rose to power.
 
When the US doesn't do something with international consequences 
it's in our own interest.  What might seem simple can have large 
political consequences.  Pinochet is an old man, almost dead.  
Let him alone.

 > I think what *really* bothers them is something they
 > cannot admit:  That we saved Europe in *two* World Wars.
 WD> 
 WD> The US "significantly contributed" but please do not overdo it. For
 WD> WW1 there are quite accurate numbers here with 30,912 known American
 WD> graves and 4,452 MIA-names on 8 memorials.
 WD> 
 WD> The American Flanders Fields cemetary in Waregem (Belgium) has 368
 WD> grave sites and the names of 43 men MIA.
 WD> 
 WD> Compare that for example to the Menen Gate memorial in Ypres dedicated
 WD> to the British with over 54,000 names of MIA's alone who died before
 WD> Aug.16 1917. Tyne Cot cemetary carries the names of another 35,000
 WD> Commonwealth MIA's who died since since Aug.17 1917. That is over
 WD> 90,000 Commonwealth MIA's alone in an area smaller than Manhattan ...
 WD> compare that to the 43 MIA US soldiers 20 miles down the road and it is
 WD> obvious who contributed the most. 

The number of casualties of the French and English *naturally* 
will exceed those of the American dead since France and England 
were involved in the dreaded "trench-warfare" for *years*, I 
believe it was Marshal Haig who insisted on the pointless charge 
and counter-charge over "No Man's Land" resulted in tremendous 
casualties.  When the Americans entered WWI General Pershing 
*refused* to get stuck in that mess.  For that reason and because 
we were in the war for a far shorter time period.

 WD> Please do not overdo the effort, the US contributed significantly but
 WD> did not win that war by itself. Every single casualty is one too many,
 WD> the British and French suffered the most.

Largely in "No Man's Land" in WWI ...

 WD> Germans suffered as well ... there are 48,000 graves alone in Vladslo
 WD> near Diksmuide. Please come to Belgium, I'll gladly take you to visit
 WD> the killing-fields and make you realise perhaps that war is not a
 WD> popularity contest. You served for which I thank you, but it seems you
 WD> have not grasped the enormity of the event in which you were engulfed
 WD> at the time. 

I think I had a good idea as to what was going on ... I read all 
the newspapers at the time and considered my own personal 
experiences to be trivial though they certainly helped ...

 > Similarly in WWII, we supplied the Soviets so
 > they'd not sign a peace treaty with Germany and then invaded
 > Normandy with some assistance from the UK.  It was almost
 > *entirely* American might which then defeated the Nazis.
 WD> 
 WD> The Russians already _HAD_ a peace-treaty with the Nazis which the
 WD> latter violated. 

Certainly the notorious "Non-Aggression Pact of 1939" could be 
considered a "peace-treaty", but I was thinking of one which 
might have involved a Russian surrender in 1941 and later.

 WD> You did not supply the Russians, the US sold stuff for
 WD> gold. Please back-away from the rethoric of that lend-lease thing ...
 WD> the Russians paid in gold for what they got.

Supplies "lent" to the British, French and Russians were *always* 
referred to as "Lend-Lease".  The only cash involved was 
*American* cash.

 WD> In Normandy slightly more Commonwealth forces were brought ashore than
 WD> US forces. You've watched too many movies such as "The Longest Day" and
 WD> "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers", it created and added to
 WD> the myth that the Americans did it all themselves and alone. The whole
 WD> of Northern France and the lowlands of Europe were a
 WD> British-Canadian-Australian-New Zealand enterprise. 

 WD> The US contributed significantly, it did not win that part of the war
 WD> itself. Even without the US contributing the way it did, the European
 WD> part would have been won. 

Without US help I don't think there's any *doubt* that Hitler 
would have won!

 WD> Please read less propaganda and more facts

The meaning of "propaganda" is "that which must be propagated" 
...

 WD> ... such as the original Nazi-estimates of raw-materials they had which
 WD> would've kept them going until Dec.1945 after which it would be a total
 WD> and final collapse. It is chronicled in Speer's "Inside the 3rd Reich"
 WD> which is to be found in any serious library, and if you do not believe
 WD> that then the original documents are still in the Bundesarchiv in
 WD> Berlin. 

Without the entry of the U.S. the war would have been over -- 
with Germany as the victor -- *far* before December 1945.  
Remember it took the Nazis only from June 1941 to December 1941 
to advance from the Russian border to the gates of Moscow!

 > WRT the Pacific War, of course, that was almost entirely an
 > American operation, with a bit of help from the Australians.
 WD> 
 WD> Granted of course ... although there was more fighting at more places
 WD> by more nationalities than just Americans at Pearl Harbor, Okinawa and
 WD> Iwo Jima.   

The U.S. Armed Forces had people from *all* over the world, 
serving under the Stars & Stripes.

 WD> As for the accusation about the lack of gratitude, the archivist of
 WD> the US 30th Infantry Brigade writes me the following:
 WD> 
 WD> In some of the above Cemeteries, many of the local people
 WD> have adopted a grave of a soldier who is unknown to them,
 WD> but he is "their adopted son," in thanks and honor for
 WD> his sacrifice in giving them their Liberty and Freedom in
 WD> 1944-5. It is just amazing that these people still give
 WD> thanks and pay tribute to their heroes after all these 56 years!

That is really a *touching* tribute!  That clashes with what has 
been said here that the American soldiers were hated throughout 
Europe.   My brother was in the 101st Airborne.  Ten years after 
the "Battle of the Bulge" the people of Belgium offered all 
American veterans of that battle paid transportation to 
celebrate the tenth anniversary (I believe it was the tenth).
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