Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33888
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24094
FIDONEWS_OLD1   13498/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4393
FN_SYSOP   41678
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13598
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16069
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22090
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   924
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3205
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13258
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32677
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2053
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
Möte FIDONEWS_OLD1, 49742 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 16991, 219 rader
Skriven 2005-11-25 22:17:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av WARD DOSSCHE
Ärende: Wars
============
-=> Quoting Ward Dossche to Frank Scheidt <=-

 > That makes no difference to the anti-America crew with their wild
 > ideas.  *Anything* the US does is *bad*.  Anything GWB says is a
 > "lie".
 WD> 
 WD> There's only one country in the world which had a quite successful
 WD> TV-show about its leadership. The TV-show was called "That's my Bush"
 WD> ... made in America, funded by American capital, first broadcast in
 WD> America, ... 

Yeah, so "successful" it was located on a tiny (at that time) TV 
channel, The Comedy Channel.   After a few months it folded ... I 
saw a bit of it ... it was really *dumb* ... it protrayed 
George W. Bush as being *stupid* when we all know he's a very 
bright guy!

 WD> The most vocal person about GWB is an American: Michael Moore!
 
Most of his statements against the US have been thoroughly 
discredited.  Have you noted he's seldom in public view these 
days.  That's because even *liberals* have become disgusted with 
his antiquated views.

 WD> The most successful anti-GWB person is an American.
 
Who is *that*?  And successful in what way?

 WD> Stand-up commedians in New York are grateful for the material their
 WD> president provides them on a regular basis.

It doesn't matter *who* is president Jay Leno and Dave Letterman 
have their writers come up with some really funny stuff.  After 
all, that's what they're paid to do -- make the audience laugh.
 
 WD> I guess you never notice how well the world likes to make fun of other
 WD> leaders as well ... Granny from England and Charlie her son are a
 WD> God-sent present when it comes to that. 

I thought Queen Elisabeth, herself, was fairly-well respected in 
Britain.  Her *family*, of course is a total disaster!  As a 
child, during WWII, her parents, King George VI and Queen 
Elizabeth, kept their family in London despite the massive 
bombings.  That was a very, very wise public-relation move!

 WD> Our stand-up comedians have a
 WD> field day about our royal household and fill theatres with people just
 WD> on that single subject. Never heard about "The President's brain is
 WD> missing"? Have a guess who that was about... We also thanked the world
 WD> for someone as stupid as Dan Quayle. 

Actually Dan Quayle is quite intelligent.  Here's what typically 
happens, the "news"media will spot some out-of-line action by a 
president or vice president -- almost *always* a Republican 
president since the "news"media are slanted to the liberal side.  
They'll then pound that idea into the ground so often that many 
people will start to believe it.  

One example is Gerald Ford who was depicted as a hopelessly 
clumsy individual, based on one incident -- he stumbled one 
time when getting out of an airplane.  The fact was he was a 
good athlete in college ... to the "news"media, however, he was a 
very clumsy person.

Dan Quayle was pilloried mercilessly for his potato/potatoe 
spelling as though that was extremely important.  Then he 
was ridiculed for allegedly saying he wished he spoke Latin 
so he could converse with the Latin Americans -- not too 
long after *that* came out a reporter *admitted* she had 
made it up on a dull day ... and so it goes.

 WD> And haven't you noticed ... nobody makes jokes about Cheney. There's a
 WD> reason for that ... you like him or you hate him, but he's respected
 WD> all over. 

OK ...

 WD> I suppose you haven't heard that former dictator Pinochet from
 WD> Argentina is only sued in one country worldwide for his crimes against
 WD> humanity ... Belgium ... and that all others, including the mightiest
 WD> country on earth, turn a blind eye. Of course, it's a rarely overlooked
 WD> footnote in world history how Pinochet rose to power.
 
When the US doesn't do something with international consequences 
it's in our own interest.  What might seem simple can have large 
political consequences.  Pinochet is an old man, almost dead.  
Let him alone.  He might have died of old-age even as we write 
about him.  Let him live in peace, even though *he* didn't give 
that option to many others when he was in power.

 > I think what *really* bothers them is something they
 > cannot admit:  That we saved Europe in *two* World Wars.
 > 
 WD> The US "significantly contributed" but please do not overdo it. For
 WD> WW1 there are quite accurate numbers here with 30,912 known American
 WD> graves and 4,452 MIA-names on 8 memorials.
 WD> 
 WD> The American Flanders Fields cemetary in Waregem (Belgium) has 368
 WD> grave sites and the names of 43 men MIA.
 WD> 
 WD> Compare that for example to the Menen Gate memorial in Ypres dedicated
 WD> to the British with over 54,000 names of MIA's alone who died before
 WD> Aug.16 1917. Tyne Cot cemetary carries the names of another 35,000
 WD> Commonwealth MIA's who died since since Aug.17 1917. That is over
 WD> 90,000 Commonwealth MIA's alone in an area smaller than Manhattan ...
 WD> compare that to the 43 MIA US soldiers 20 miles down the road and it is
 WD> obvious who contributed the most. 

The number of casualties of the French and English during WWI 
*naturally* will exceed those of the American dead since France 
and England were involved in the dreaded "trench-warfare" for 
*years*, I believe it was Marshal Haig who insisted on the 
pointless charge and counter-charge over "No Man's Land" 
resulted in tremendous casualties.  He simply ignored the effect 
of the *modern* weapon, the machine gun.  

When the Americans entered WWI General Pershing *refused* to 
get stuck in that mess.  For that reason and because 
we were in the war for a far shorter time period we had far fewer 
casualties than did the French and British.

 WD> Please do not overdo the effort, the US contributed significantly but
 WD> did not win that war by itself. Every single casualty is one too many,
 WD> the British and French suffered the most.

Largely in "No Man's Land" in WWI ...

 WD> Germans suffered as well ... there are 48,000 graves alone in Vladslo
 WD> near Diksmuide. Please come to Belgium, I'll gladly take you to visit
 WD> the killing-fields and make you realise perhaps that war is not a
 WD> popularity contest. You served for which I thank you, but it seems you
 WD> have not grasped the enormity of the event in which you were engulfed
 WD> at the time. 

I think I had a good idea as to what went on ... I read 
everything I could get my hands on WRT WWI.  My older brother and 
I discussed it for hours at a time.  After he was in Europe he 
often wrote back to me indicating where he was, based on what we 
had read as kids, both fact and fiction ...

 > Similarly in WWII, we supplied the Soviets so
 > they'd not sign a peace treaty with Germany and then invaded
 > Normandy with some assistance from the UK.  It was almost
 > *entirely* American might which then defeated the Nazis.
 WD> 
 WD> The Russians already _HAD_ a peace-treaty with the Nazis which the
 WD> latter violated. 

Certainly the notorious "Non-Aggression Pact of 1939" could be 
considered a "peace-treaty", but I was thinking of one which 
might have involved a Russian surrender in 1941 and later.

 WD> You did not supply the Russians, the US sold stuff for
 WD> gold. Please back-away from the rethoric of that lend-lease thing ...
 WD> the Russians paid in gold for what they got.

Supplies "lent" to the British, French and Russians were *always* 
referred to as "Lend-Lease".  The only cash involved was 
*American* cash.

 WD> In Normandy slightly more Commonwealth forces were brought ashore than
 WD> US forces. You've watched too many movies such as "The Longest Day" and
 WD> "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers", it created and added to
 WD> the myth that the Americans did it all themselves and alone. The whole
 WD> of Northern France and the lowlands of Europe were a
 WD> British-Canadian-Australian-New Zealand enterprise. 

 WD> The US contributed significantly, it did not win that part of the war
 WD> itself. Even without the US contributing the way it did, the European
 WD> part would have been won. 

Without US help I don't think there's any *doubt* that Hitler 
would have won!

 WD> Please read less propaganda and more facts

The meaning of "propaganda" is "that which must be propagated" 
...

 WD> ... such as the original Nazi-estimates of raw-materials they had which
 WD> would've kept them going until Dec.1945 after which it would be a total
 WD> and final collapse. It is chronicled in Speer's "Inside the 3rd Reich"
 WD> which is to be found in any serious library, and if you do not believe
 WD> that then the original documents are still in the Bundesarchiv in
 WD> Berlin. 

Without the entry of the U.S. the war would have been over -- 
with Germany as the victor -- *far* before December 1945.  
Remember it took the Nazis only from June 1941 to December 1941 
to advance from the Russian border to the gates of Moscow!

 > WRT the Pacific War, of course, that was almost entirely an
 > American operation, with a bit of help from the Australians.
 WD> 
 WD> Granted of course ... although there was more fighting at more places
 WD> by more nationalities than just Americans at Pearl Harbor, Okinawa and
 WD> Iwo Jima.   

The U.S. Armed Forces had people from *all* over the world, 
serving under the Stars & Stripes.

 WD> As for the accusation about the lack of gratitude, the archivist of
 WD> the US 30th Infantry Brigade writes me the following:
 WD> 
 WD> In some of the above Cemeteries, many of the local people
 WD> have adopted a grave of a soldier who is unknown to them,
 WD> but he is "their adopted son," in thanks and honor for
 WD> his sacrifice in giving them their Liberty and Freedom in
 WD> 1944-5. It is just amazing that these people still give
 WD> thanks and pay tribute to their heroes after all these 56 years!

That is really a *touching* tribute!  That clashes with what has 
been said here that the American soldiers were hated throughout 
Europe.   My brother was in the 101st Airborne.  Ten years after 
the "Battle of the Bulge" the people of Belgium offered all 
American veterans of that battle paid transportation to 
celebrate the tenth anniversary (I believe it was the tenth).
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)