Text 17487, 99 rader
Skriven 2005-12-02 09:50:00 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST
Ärende: Name-Calling
====================
-=> Quoting Michiel Van Der Vlist to Frank Scheidt <=-

 >> Are you a stand-up comic by profession Mr. Vlist,

 MVDV>> The name is _van_der_ Vlist.  If you must use my family name, please
 MVDV>> use it correctly.
 
 > OK ... I wasn't aware that the "van der" was part of your surname.

 MVDV> Hmmm for someone claiming to be an expert on Europe, you are pretty
 MVDV> ignorant. 

Oh?  Where did I make such a claim???

 MVDV> European surnames basicall go into three catagories:

 MVDV> 1) Derived from a profession: Smit (smith), Bakker (baker)

 MVDV> 2) Derived from the name of the father: Karlson (Son of Karl) Janson,
 MVDV> Jansen, (Son of Jan)

 MVDV> 3) Derived from a place: van der Vlist: from, or of, Vlist.

All well-known ... [sigh] ...

 MVDV> About 50 km south west of here there is a little village by the name
 MVDV> of Vlist. A little river with the same name flows through it. Most
 MVDV> likely one of my forefathers came from that place. I could claim as a
 MVDV> landlord, but as I have not pursued this and sometimes the landlord's
 MVDV> workers would also adopt the name of the place, I can not say.

 MVDV> The derivation is signaled by "van", "van de" or "van der" in Dutch.
 MVDV> In German by "von". In French "de". In French however, just like in
 MVDV> English the prefixes are sometimes concatenated with the name itself.
 MVDV> We have a Joe Delahaye here. That derives from "de la Haye" or "from
 MVDV> The Hague". I believe "Vanderbilt" is a well known name in the US. The
 MVDV> original Dutch name probably was "van der Bilt". Note that the prefixes
 MVDV> are not capitalised. 
 MVDV> So the "van der" in my name is not a middle name, it is part of my
 MVDV> surname. 

In the U.S. we have largely given up such affectations.  The only 
people who use such titles are people who want some kind of 
publicity, movie actors, for example.  Your "Vanderbilt" example 
is one way they are treated -- either ignored or combined with 
the "last" last name.

 MVDV> Other than that: Referring to someone by his last name in thge
 MVDV> examples you gave (the news) is perfectly all right here as well. It is
 MVDV> not all right however to address someone with hist last name only. In
 MVDV> earlier days that from was used to address an underling, nowadays it is
 MVDV> considered patronising. If one is not on a first name basis, one
 MVDV> prefixes he name with Mr. or Dr. or whatever title is appropriate.

European customs are different than American customs. That's all 
you're saying.  Using last names as a form of address is common 
here.  It has no special significance.

 MVDV> OTOH, it is also considered mildly insulting here to adress someone as
 MVDV> "Mr." in a group if the group's customs and mores are that all members
 MVDV> are on a first name basis.

I think American speech is a bit more subtle than is European 
speech WRT "Mr."  If I had intended an insult it would have been 
obvious.  As should have been apparent I've avoided any insulting 
or flaming here though I'm pretty experienced in the use of both 
... heh heh heh ... I tend to do it only defensively ...
 
 >> or is it merely a hobby?   ... heh heh heh ... BTW, you're the
 >> only one I know who seems to think *Germany* won WWII ...

 MVDV>> Eh??? How did you get the idea I think Germany won? They
 MVDV>> obviously lost I'd say.
 
 > Huh?  You say, and I quote:  "It also explains why so many
 > Americans believe the US won WWII."  That says you think the
 > US *lost* WWII.  Strange!

 MVDV> Only in your binary way of thinking.

Whatever *that* means ... [sigh] ...

 MVDV> War is not a football game where there are just two parties and where
 MVDV> in the end there is always exactly one winner and exactly one loser.

WRT WWII one side won; one side lost.

 MVDV> In real wars there are third parties that contributed but that by
 MVDV> themselves neither lost nor won. Or that are part of the winning team,
 MVDV> but that are not the winners as such.

Certainly Germany lost *more* than Italy lost but that doesn't 
change what you implied, i.e., that America did *not* win.

... Confidence occurs when you are ignorant of the facts.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
 * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:123/140)