Text 17575, 118 rader
Skriven 2005-12-03 13:42:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 17488 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
Ärende: Sociopaths!
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 >> *What* "freedom fighters"?

 MVDV>> You know who we are talking about.

 > It seems you look upon murderers with some affection ...

Appearances can be deceptive.

 MVDV>> Terrorist or freedom fighter, it is all a matter of perspective.
 MVDV>> Just as "murder" or "collateral damage". In the end it is those
 MVDV>> who write the history books that say which is what.

 > Not so.  A terrorist is one who is trying to terrorize a mass
 > of people through his terrible actions.

That is how it looks in the eyes of the enemy of his people.

 > A freedom fighter, OTOH, is fighting an *enemy* to achieve
 > freedom for his people.

That is how it looks in the eyes of his people.

All a matter of perspective.

 > There's no way one could look upon the murderers who killed
 > three thousand innocent people that way!

Of course there is a way. Just look at it from their point of view.

 > It was done *deliberately*

And the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were an accident?

 > for no adequate reason which makes it murder.

For them the reason was adequate: they wanted to teach the US a lessen.
Unfortunateley it didn't take.

 >> thousands of innocent people in the Twin Towers.

 MVDV>> In a true democracy there are no innocent people. Every voter bears
 MVDV>> responsibility for the results of the choices he/she made. The people
 MVDV>> are an accomplice in the acts committed by their leaders.

 > So you are admitting the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
 > *were* guilty!

You are getting too predictable Frank, I knew you were going to say that. Now
read again: "in a true democracy" I wrote. Was Japan a true democracy in 1945?
Don't think so.

 > I had never looked upon it that way, considering only
 > the military objectives of the bombing.

Military objectives my foot! The obvious objective was to "teach them a
lesson". To scare the shit out of them by killing as many people as possible.

It perfectly fits your definition of "terrorist".

 > Actually I never really considered the people there to be
 > truly *guilty* -- only unlucky.

And maybe that is how Mohammed Atta looked upon the people in the twin towers:
unlucky.

 MVDV>> 9/11 is something that the USA brought onto itself. The
 MVDV>> people of the USA were not innocent bystanders in the
 MVDV>> chain of events that led up to it.

 > What was the "chain of events" as you see it?

For one: the unconditional support of Israel, thereby committing a grave
injustice against the people of Palestine.

 > Or do you fear  I'll demolish it?  ... heh heh heh ...

No doubt you will come up with some lame excuse for every action of the US that
led to this form of asymetric warfare.

 >> One then should make *certain* a given person *has* mistreated
 >> one before one attacks that given person.

 MVDV>> I am sure the people who took revenge against the USA by destroying
 MVDV>> the twin towers were just as sure of their case as you are when you
 MVDV>> claim the war against Iraq is justified...

 > Merely "believing" something doesn't make it *true*!

You guys should have thought of that before attacking Irak on the pretext that
there were WMD's.

 MVDV>> Throwing a weapon of mass destruction from the safety of an aircraft
 MVDV>> at altitude and speed is not an act of heroism.

 > It was an act of heroism because they didn't know if the bomb
 > would explode in such a way as to kill the plane's crew!

There was the test of the first bomb, they had a fair idea of there chances.

Mohammed Atta had the certainty that he would not survive. Does that make him a
super here now?

 >> were bombing military targets.

 MVDV>> Military targets my foot! The vast majority of the people in
 MVDV>> Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilians that had done nothing
 MVDV>> to deserve to be brutally murdered and maimed by a weapon
 MVDV>> of mass destruction.

 > They were collateral damage -- unlucky to be in the wrong
 > place at the wrong time!

Then so were the people in the twin towers.

Cheers, Michiel

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