Text 18196, 103 rader
Skriven 2005-12-08 16:32:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 18094 av FRANK SCHEIDT (1:123/140)
Ärende: Name-Calling
====================
 >> How would an immigrant named "Michiel Van Der Vlist" likely
 >> "Anglicize" *that* name here?
[..]
 >> Possibly "Michael List", for example.

 MVDV>> Dropping the 'V'? Not likely.

 > I disagree.  "List" is easy to spell and pronounce while "Vlist" isn't.

Vlist is difficult to pronounce? Hmmm... the man from Newy York that called me
the day before yesterdat to lure me into some investment scheme din't seem to
have that problem.

I never heard native English speakers complain. But.. I know better than to
argue wit a native speaker, so if you say so, I will accept that at face value.

But then I would not go for "List". If "vlist" is not good enough I might as
well go for something completely different. Like "Clinton". ;-)

Purely hyphothical of course. I am not coming to the US.

 > When immigrants change their names it's almost *always*
 > to a name which is both easy to pronounce and to spell.  When
 > *my* family immigrated here they didn't anglicize the name
 > obviously.

Obviously. I wonder what made them select the name in the first place...

 >> And as a *new* immigrant that would pose no special problem
 >> for he'd not have a long history of activities here using
 >> his original name.

 MVDV>> Yes, I can see that...

 MVDV>> In these time of global communication however, peole would
 MVDV>> not start completely from scracth however. They have written
 MVDV>> articles, obtained degrees, etc, etc..

 > True.  Things are a bit more complex than they were when many
 > immigrants came over in sailing ships.

How true. The world has changed a lot since then.

[..]

 >> I presume it's widespread for I know a number of people who
 >> are addressed routinely by their last name.

 MVDV>> I find that very odd. If it really is common, why have I
 MVDV>> *never* heard it in American movies or TV series?

 > I have no idea ... don't misunderstand me, though, usually
 > people do *not* address others by their surnames, however a
 > *lot* of people do.  I can't come up with a percentage.  Maybe
 > movies and TV are trying to do what *most* people do, use the
 > first name, or the surname with "Mr." or the equivalent.

Given the flood of US material that we are subject too, I would have expected
to hear it ar least occasionally if it really was not uncommon. Oh wel...

 >> Even in *my* case among the many neighbors I knew as a child
 >> there was one family in which the people addressed me *always*
 >> using my last name only -- and they were *friends*.

 MVDV>> Addressing a child with his last name is even weirder to me...

 > They did that for *years* well into my adulthood ... it meant
 > nothing special to me ...

Of course. For a child it becomes normal when regularly confronted with it.

 >> So if someone comes here from Europe wanting to insult me for
 >> some reason, then addresses me by my last name he'd be mighty
 >> disappointed ... heh heh heh ...

 MVDV>> The reverse is worse. Making an innocent remark that comes
 MVDV>> across as an insult. When you ever come to The Netherlands,
 MVDV>> I advise against addressing people by their last name *only*.

 > I seldom do that in any event ...

You might do it accidentally as you are unaware that it is insultive.

 >>> So Germany only lost the war "somewhat"???

 MVDV>>> No. Try again.

 >> Why "No"?  In many cases there *are* only two shades.
 >> Examples, pregnancy, death, virginity, etc.

 MVDV>> And in many other cases there are grades. Examples: guilt,
 MVDV>> innocence, winning, losing, dark, light.

 > OK ... but "winning, losing"???  OK, I suppose there are
 > grades of winning or losing ...

Not just that, there are cases where everyone loses and there are no winners.


Cheers, Michiel

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