Text 26146, 112 rader
Skriven 2006-03-05 16:19:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 26108 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.0)
Ärende: Elist
=============
 >>>> He listed the echo in the Z2 echolist...it may not have been required,

 MvdV>>> It is not required. Period.

 >> Maybe, maybe it was.

 MvdV>> It is not required. Period.

 > ok... that is now... how about back then??

Not required.

 > what absolute proof do you bring?

EP1 III 6:

6.   DUTIES OF  ECHOMAIL CONFERENCE  MODERATOR:

Nothing there about requiring a moderator to submit data to an echolist keeper.

 MvdV>> In retrospect I'd say Ward's error was in allowing the echo to be
 MvdV>> distributed in Z1. Had he kept it restricted to Z2, none of this
 MvdV>> would have happened and we in Z2 would still have the echo and
 MvdV>> could have used its for the purpose it was intended.

 > the prupose, AIR, was to make messages from a private echo public...

The prime responsibility of the ZC2 is towards the sysops in Z2. So the primary
purpose was to inform the sysops in Z2.

 > so how would leaving out Z1 helped in that??

Isn't that obvious? The Z2 sysops respected the moderator's wish not to post
unless invited. They are used to that system. We have several areas that are
run on that basis. The Z1 sysops obviously are not used to that system and
didn't respect it. So leaving them out would have kept the area usable for its
original purpose: informing the constituency of the ZC2.

 > you'd rather keep Z1 in the dark and suckerpunch them instead??

I'd rather restrict the area to Z2 and let the Z1 sysops find their own channel
of information then let them spoil it for all.

Informing the Z1 sysops of what goes on in the ZCC is the repsonsibility of
ZC1, not that of ZC2.

 >> I'm waiting for your suggestion in how to fix that problem.

 MvdV>> Dump the e-list.

 > toss the baby with the bathwater? yeah, that's about your speed...

I have come to the conclusion that e-lists run by self appointed dictators are
a cure that is worse than the disease. The sensible thing to do in that case is
to do away with it.

 >>>> That rule keeps moderators on their toes,

 MvdV>>> In Z2 we have an echomail policy to take care of that.

 >> I know. I've read it and it suckes.

 MvdV>> Your opinion. For me it has been a usefull tool to help deal
 MvdV>> with problems.

 > but you don't even use it as it is written!

That is your opinion. It does not stop me from finding it has been a usefull
tool for me to help deal with problems.

 >> It's no different than the echomail policy that Souvestre proposed

 MvdV>> Possibly not as the echomail policy we use here was originally
 MvdV>> written in and for Z1.

 > known public fact along with the known public fact that you
 > freely ignore any parts of it at any time that don't suit your
 > purposes (generic "you" in there)...

Again: your opinion. Your opinion is irrelevant as you are not a concerned
party.

 MvdV>> As long as the Z1 backbone required echos to be listed in order
 MvdV>> to have them carried, it was not voluntary.

 > sure it was!

Again: your opinion. Freedom of choice however is in the eye of the beholder.
You may be of opinion that a bird in a cage is not free, but if the bird has
spend all its life in the cage, it may not even be aware of the possibility of
entering the space outside the cage. In fact it has been reported that some
birds refuse to leave the cage when finally the door was opened. OTOH, you may
argue that a man in a space prison is there by his own choice. After all, he is
free to open the airlock and walk out...

 > if they didn't want to list their echos in the elist, then they
 > simply didn't get their echos carried on that backbone!

It is not as simple as that. If they do not list their echos, there is a fair
chance someone else will list it in his/her name.

 > what is so hard to understand about that??

Ask Ward if he felt free in his choice regarding listing ZCC-PUBLIC. Als Björn
if he felt free in his choice regarding listing FIDONEWS and FN_SYSOP.

Why is it so hard to understand that "list or else.." is not a free choice?

Cheers, Michiel

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