Text 36056, 230 rader
Skriven 2006-08-06 19:22:40 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 36048 av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
Ärende: Massive European Guilt!
===============================
Hello Björn.

06 Aug 06 23:26, you wrote to me:

 BF>>> Why must I grow a thicker skin to cummunicate with you? Wouldn't
 BF>>> it be better for you to grow up to communicate with me?

 JS>>      Do you consider yourself equal to or better than others?

 BF> I guess that I'm not better than you but far better than Shannon.

 JS>> I ask
 JS>> because you seem to think that others should change their ways in
 JS>> order to communicate with you. Making no judgements on your ways
 JS>> or theirs.

 BF> Of course you do since you only ask me to change my behaviour.

     You seem to have a genuine dislike for Americans while Roy and
Frank seem more interested in pushing your buttons for the entertainment
value if nothing else. Which results in you hating Americans even more. I
figure it is easier to get you to see that fact than it would be to yell
at everyone that you don't like.

    Do I think that Roy and Frank contribute to the problem? Sure. As do I
and you. Would it help if Roy and Frank stopped their behavior?  Perhaps,
but I doubt that it would happen based on anything I might say. Again I
make the effort where I think it it will be most effective. You probably
see that as only picking on you.


 JS>> Wouldn't it be better to accept those ways in others that you
 JS>> realize are not going to change instead of constantly complaining
 JS>> about them?

 BF> So either I accept Shannons behaviour or stop responding to him?


      No, but be smart enough to see those things in others that all the
complaining in the world isn't going to change. Complaining about things
that you can not change just makes you look foolish. As well as making you
look like you just want the battle to continue.


 JS>> Otherwise you will end up spending all your time posting messages
 JS>> complaining about things and people. I know that you are not the
 JS>> only person doing that and I am not singling you out alone.
 JS>> Although that is the only way that I would suspect that you are
 JS>> able to see it.

 BF> So everything is up to me and only me and the loudspeakers here
 BF> can go on with their rantings and slander. I see.


     Try reading what I write. What part of "I know that you are not the
only person doing that and I am not singling you out alone" were you not
able to understand? Me thinks you see just what you wish to see.


 ST>>>>  AND -- quit
 ST>>>> making this an "American" issue!!  "I" am not making this a
 ST>>>> Swedish issue, and therefore, you stereotyping Americans really
 ST>>>> 'is' a sign of prejudice -- perhaps not so overtly as you
 ST>>>> realize or want to admit to yourself, but it is just the same.

 BF>>> Perhaps in your eyes but why don't I (along with many others)
 BF>>> have a problem with anyone else than you, Dan, Roy and Frank?
 BF>>> Then you can't be examples of good Americans. I don't have any
 BF>>> problem with anyone else in any other echo. Strange, isn't it?

 JS>> That would depend on what your definition of "Good American" is.

 BF> A good American is like Roger Nelson, xxcarol etc. People that can
 BF> listen and see that everything isn't black or white and understand
 BF> that everything Made in USA doesn't have to be the best.

     Good people to be sure. The ability to SEE and LISTEN is always
good. But I would hope that we all want to be the best and have our
country be the best. I know that isn't the case nearly enough but that
doen't mean that one shouldn't try. So I guess I don't understand why
things made in the USA shouldn't be the best that they can be.


 JS>> I would tend to think that Americans are both good and bad both
 JS>> individually and as a whole. Do you ask or know what country
 JS>> those in the other echos come from?

 BF> I know.

      Then why not act like you know??? What you say and how you act
are rather differant.

 JS>> Why not look at someone as a good or bad person as opposed to a
 JS>> good or bad American? You continually have to bring up or mention
 JS>> one's nationality as if it was of overiding concern or priority
 JS>> to you.

 BF> None of those are half as loud as Shannon.

 ST>>>> If you must leave, do so.... But remember, you made the
 ST>>>> decision to leave -- nobody actually "kicked you out".

 BF>>> And what did you then mean by Leave!?

 JS>>      The same as I did I would think when I said that although I
 JS>> am not asking or wanting you to leave. If you decide that thats
 JS>> is what is best for you to do. Based on your behavior here it
 JS>> won't break my heart.

 BF> Based on otheres behaviour I'm not the only that should leave. I'm not
 BF> the one that have used someone elses name and node number for example.

     Again I am not asking that you leave. And as far as Roy is concerned.
His use of another persons real name was wrong. And he lost Fidonet node
because of it. Do you think that you should leave?

 ST>>>> However, "I" recommend you take a short
 ST>>>> break, and then come back.  Just take a week or maybe 3 days.

 BF>>> And now when I have done that, have anythig improved? I still se
 BF>>> that Roy and Frank bicker about me, Roy and Dan are still
 BF>>> bickering and you are still saying that I hate Americans and Roy
 BF>>> is still bashing Europeans and almost everyone except you, Dan
 BF>>> and Frank. Everything is as usual, just like a normal day at
 BF>>> work, eh?


 JS>>      And you were expecting some miraculous change? I think I get
 JS>> along with people for the most part because I don't spend my time
 JS>> trying to see what about them I can complain about. I accept
 JS>> those things in people that are in their nature that I know I
 JS>> will not change.

 BF> So why are you only arguing with me for? It's just as likely that I
 BF> will change as it is for Roy, Frank or Shannon to change.

     Not nesesarily. It would depend on the person and what their motives
really are for their behavior.

 ST>>>> I don't necessarily want you to leave, but I
 ST>>>> sincerely hope you won't continue to make things an "American"
 ST>>>> issue as you have been doing.

 BF>>> I have realized that it isn't. It's a Roy, Frank, Dan and a
 BF>>> Shannon issue.

 JS>>      There you go. The first positive step???

 BF> Positive in what way? They are all Americans.


     Positive in the sense that you are actually saying that the problem
is with them as people and not with them as Americans.


 ST>>>> Realize that "people are people" -- wherever you are --
 ST>>>> regardless of the city -- the country -- the continent --
 ST>>>> people are people. And, people in real life are rarely the
 ST>>>> personalities they are in the echos.

 JS>>      Well said.

 BF>>> Again, really? Isn't it here in the echos they really can show
 BF>>> who they are where they don't have to hide behind any masks to
 BF>>> conceal it from the family?

 JS>>      I would tend to think that the opposite would apply. People
 JS>> here in the echos can go by any name that they choose. And can
 JS>> ack in any manner that they wish. Is what I see of you here in
 JS>> the echos the REAL you??

 BF> Yes, the one that gets frustrated when being falsely accused of having
 BF> exchanged netmails "with the other Bjorn".


    I don't know about that and therefore can't say.

 JS>> Maybe or maybe not. I have no way of actually knowing. As I have
 JS>> stated, I base my opinion of you based on what you post here and
 JS>> how you behave here.

 BF> And how others behave is none of your concern?

 ST>>>> Whatever your decision, don't base it on anything that "I" or
 ST>>>> anyone else tells you.

 BF>>> So when you say Leave! I shouldn't listen to you. Fair enough.


 JS>>      Correct. Base your decision on what's best for you.

 BF> I don't care what's best for me but best for this echo is that the
 BF> loudspeakers will turn down the volume so the rest doesn't need to go
 BF> to an ear doctor.


     I can agree with that.

 JS>>      You have the right to defend yourself just as much as anyone
 JS>> else. The problem with you and others here IMHO is that instead
 JS>> of defending yourself against the PERSON that you think is
 JS>> attacking you. You defend yourself against the country that the
 JS>> person comes from. In the messages that I have posted that you
 JS>> might consider an attack upon you. How many times have I refered
 JS>> to or mentioned what country that you come from? It doesn't
 JS>> matter to me. I can like or dislike you regardless of where you
 JS>> might live.

 BF> Why didn't you speak up when all we could hear from Roy was that we
 BF> lived in a third world pissant little country? Why didn't you speak up
 BF> when Frank accused all of Europe in general and France in particular
 BF> to be cowards? Why all of a sudden do you speak up now when someone
 BF> does the same against USA?


     Partly because I have only recently gotten back into echomail several
months ago and don't read all of yours or anyones posts.  I don't have a
problem with ignoring your posts if you think that it will help?


    There. Just added TWIT=ALL to the config here. <g>


 BF> ---
 BF>  * Origin: . (2:203/614.61)

Jeff

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 * Origin: Twin_Cities_Metronet - MN USA (1:14/0)