Text 36740, 207 rader
Skriven 2006-08-14 12:51:00 av BOB KLAHN (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av ROSS CASSELL
Ärende: Hizbalah
================
 I replied to this radio talkshow statement you posted. You tried
 to twist and turn this into a personal attack on me. You ignored
 almost every single point I made, which points were heavily
 backed up with evidence.

 So, I decided to repost the reply. Try to actually address the
 issues.

 I did delete some of the introductory BS. You claimed vast
 morality in your little finger, let's see if it gets beyond your
 little finger, maybe to your head, or heart.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------

FORUM:   FIDONEWS                             HOST: DOCS
DATE:    Aug-12-06 4:47pm                     MSG:  52201
FROM:    BOB KLAHN
TO:      ROSS CASSELL
SUBJECT: Hezbolla


 RC> Hello All!

 RC> From the August 4th edition of a newsletter put out by a
 RC> local talk radio host..

 RC> Israel v. Hezbollah for dummies
 RC> Ralph Bristol
 RC> August 4, 2006

 ...

 RC> Here are some simple questions and answers to help people
 RC> take sides, if they are hesitant to do so.

 RC> Q: Is Israel a legitimate, sovereign nation, so recognized
 RC> by the world?

 RC> A: Yes

 Q: Do the Palestinian people exist? Do they have a right to
 their own state?

 A: According to the UN resolutions, the only legal basis for the
 existance of Israel, yes. Yet among the Israelis there are
 prominent and influential forces that want to make all of
 Palestine into Israel. The current Prime Minister even
 apologized for abandoning that goal in the withdrawel from Gaza.
 A move that the advocates hold against him.

 RC> Q: ! Is Hezbollah, regardless of its designation, dedicated
 RC> to the destruction of Israel?

 RC> A: Yes

 RC> Q: Has Hezbollah acted on that goal with aggressive,
 RC> military action?

 RC> A: Yes, with just enough frequency to satisfy its sponsors
 RC> (Iran, Syria) and enough infrequency to avoid an all-out
 RC> retaliation (until now). During that period, Hezbollah used
 RC> Israel's prolonged restraint as an opportunity to build up
 RC> its supply of rockets and other armament. That's why Israel
 RC> is having a more difficult time than expected in its
 RC> eradication mission.

 Actually, apparently no. In searching the web for this, I found
 exactly 1 attack on Israeli terrority since 2001, before July 11
 2006, listed as "Hizballah sponsored". That was in early 2002,
 between two Kibbutz. The Kibbutz Hanita was identified with
 this. I don't know what "Hizballah sponsored" means, and I have
 found little on this.

 My main source is the Israli web site for the "Jerusleum Center
 for Public Affairs." The article was written in 2003 by an
 Israeli Military reserve colonel. I have found nothing since
 then. That site is the source for much of what I am posting. The
 spelling I am using, Hizballah, is the spelling used by the US
 State Dept and Isreali sources I have found.

 The site lists two other incidents, one in the Palestinian
 refugee camp at Jenin, which is in the West Bank, *NOT* Israeli
 territory, the other in the Sheeba Farms, territory that was
 disputed between Lebanon and Syria, but Syria has yielded their
 claim to Lebanon. In any case, it is *NOT* Israeli territory.

 In the July incident, the Hizballah mortar attack did not kill
 one single Israeli civilian. All the casualties were military.
 As to where it took place, I have seen numerous references,
 including the first reference in Forbes, that said it was in
 Lebanon, not Isreal. I have not found anything definitive on
 that yet.

 RC> Q: Does Lebanon deserve the pounding that it's getting?

 RC> A: I'll report, you decide. Lebanon has acted as a willing
 RC> host to Hezbollah since its inception.

 That is either a blatant lie or gross ignorance. Even Israel
 admits the Lebanese military is not able to take on Hizballah.

 When Isreal controlled Southern Lebanon for 22 years they built
 practically nothing, left the place with no infrastructure. The
 govt of Lebanon was dominated by Syria until recently, and
 Hizballah was the only real force in Southern Lebanon. Lebanon
 had no choice. After Syria withdrew Lebanon was left with no
 force strong enough to take on Hizballah.

 IOW, Lebanon does not and never actually did act as a willing
 host to Hizballah.

 Further, while Isreal was in control of Southern Lebanon for
 about 22 years, they didn't build schools, hospitals, clinics,
 or any of the infrastructure necessary. Hizballah did that. So,
 forcing out Hizballah requires someone capable of carrying on
 that work. It wasn't Israel while they were there.

 RC> The Lebanese people
 RC> have placed 14 Hezbollah members in its 128-member
 RC> parliament.

 Some Lebanese people did that. *THE* Lebanese people did no such
 thing. In addition, repeated news reports have made it clear the
 Lebanese people would not much object to the Isreali invasion if
 all they did was attack Hizballah. As it is, even Christian
 Lebanese are turning against Isreal on this. Remember, not only
 are Christians about 40% of Lebanese, combined with Druse they
 are probably a majority, and both the Christians and Druse were
 allied with Isreal during the Israeli occupation.

 RC> Hezbollah also holds the Ministry of Water and
 RC> Electricity.

 Wow! Does that mean Hizballah plans to flood Isreal? Or supply
 dirty electricity?

 RC> Lebanon has allowed Hezbollah to maintain a
 RC> militia, even as all other militias were forced to disband.

 Again, blatant lie or gross ignorance. Lebanon had no choice.
 They had no way to stop them. Even Isreal admits that.

 RC>  It is natural that the eradication of a deadly pest is
 RC>  going to cause harm to the willing host of that pest,
 RC>  especially when the pest takes great pains to imbed itself
 RC>  in the host, and the host does not resist.

 Dispicable lie. The host is not willing, the "pest" has been, at
 most, a nuisance for years, and the host had no way to resist.

 RC> In effect, Hezbollah has taken a country (Lebanon) as a
 RC> hostage in an attempt to avoid prosecution. Na‹ve observers
 RC> seem to believe that Israel should handle the conflict like
 RC> the FBI might handle a bank hostage situation - negotiate
 RC> and use minimum violence to avoid harming the hostages.

 Not a bad idea. Esp since the result has been far worse than
 anything even Israel had imagined, and the end will probably be
 Israel will fail to do real damage to Hizballah.

 RC> The difference is this. ! In the bank hostage situation, if
 RC> the FBI manages to wait out the bank robbers and end the
 RC> standoff without violence, the hostages are set free and
 RC> the robbers are arrested.  The robbers are not free to rob
 RC> again when they so choose. In the conflict between Israel
 RC> and Hezbollah, if there is a cease-fire before Hezbollah is
 RC> incapacitated, then Hezbollah simply lives to repeat its
 RC> past aggressions, and there is no progress. Israel's
 RC> existence remains threatened, and Hezbollah is free to grow
 RC> stronger for the next bout.

 Aside from the fact that Hizballah hasn't had past aggressions
 to repeat in the four years before July 2006, and little before
 that, and that it looks more and more like Hizballah will still
 be there and even stronger after this is all over....

  OTOH, there is nothing aside from those facts.

 RC> Israel has the right, and it has no other choice than to
 RC> forcefully disable Hezbollah's military capabilities. It is

 But not the ability, it seems.

 RC> unfortunate, but unavoidable that the people and country of
 RC> Lebanon are being harmed in the process, but Lebanon itself
 RC> - and its people - are more to blame for that than Israel,

 Not in this case. It seems the country and people of Lebanon are
 as much innocent victims as anyone can be. OTOH, his arguement
 would just as much justify Hizballah's actions, since Hizballah
 apparently was trying to sieze prisoners to trade for Lebanese
 prisoners being held without charge in Isreal. Prisoners with
 not even so much as an accusation against them, other than maybe
 being related to someone in Hizballah.

 RC> because they have willfully nurtured a group whose purpose
 RC> is to destroy a sovereign nation. (Feedback)

 Ok, pure lie. Enough already.


BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... George W. Bush... first of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse.
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