Text 36782, 97 rader
Skriven 2006-08-15 19:13:00 av LEE LOFASO (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av BOB KLAHN
Ärende: CELEBRATION!
====================
Yo Bob!

>HN>Sure it might have saved many allied troops when they had
>HN>to invade Japan, but that cannot be an argument for
>HN>celebrating the nukes in WWII.

>BK>While there is no reason to celebrate the deaths of so many, it
>BK>probably saved a lot of Japanese troops and civilians also.

>LL>Face it, Bob.  Harry S Truman was a mass murderer.  The
>LL>Japanese high command had offered to surrender a full month
>LL>*before* the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Now

BK>As I recall, it was an offer of a condition filled surrender.

Of course it was.  After all, none of the Japanese high command
wanted to put on trial and sentenced to death.

BK>Essentially life in Japan would go on as it had been. The allies
BK>wanted an end to the Japanese system.

And the Japanese high command wanted to live.

>LL>please explain your logic (if there is any) as to how those
>LL>atomic bombings "probably saved a lot of Japanese troops
>LL>and civilians also." After all, hundreds of thousands of
>LL>innocent men, women and children died as a result.  And

BK>Removing a system that was more evil than even Bush claimed for
BK>Iraq was necessary. The fact that the Japanese leadership was
BK>not willing to agree to it meant that we would have had to
BK>invade.

The Empire of Japan was a military dictatorship.  The people of
Japan had little (if any) say in how things were run.  But how does
any of what you said justify an already defeated Japan?  Was it so
important to hang the military leaders of Japan, rather than accept
a Japanese surrender?

BK>I will argue that what we did in insisting in a total change was
BK>a net gain for the Japanese. If you think we have a problem with
BK>trafficing of women, slavery, in Japan they didn't consider it a
BK>problem, but a normal part of life. Before the war the
BK>militarists solved their problem with internal disagreement by
BK>killing the peace and democracy advocates.

The Saudis have no problem with the trafficking of women and slavery,
etc.  And neither do we, in regards to the Saudis.  But then, Saudi
Arabia has oil.  Japan does not.  BTW, how democratic a society is
Saudi Arabia?  It seems the Saudis have a means of killing the peace
and democracy advocates in their kingdom.  Usually by using a sword.
Of course, that is the way the Japanese militarists handled such
matters as well.  Off with the head!  Works every time.

BK>I have read of what was done to our troops who were POWs, but
BK>they did the same sort of things to civilian prisoner. The abuse
BK>of civilian populations in conquered territories qualified the
BK>entire Japanese military as a terrorist organization.

Even though the Japanese did not always treat American POWs
in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, we supposedly treated
Japanese and German POWs in accordance with those conventions.
As for civilian populations, what do you think we did with those
who collaborated with the enemy?  THE SAME THING THE JAPANESE
DID TO THOSE WHO COLLABORATED WITH THE ENEMY.

BK>For that the Japanese system had to be brought down. Which the
BK>Japanese leadership was unwilling to do.

We imposed our own system upon the Japanese.  Including writing
their own constitution.  We are doing much the same thing in Iraq
today.  The Japanese people went along with us, only because they
had no choice.  The Iraqi people are going along with us, only
because they have no choice.  After all, Japan was an occupied
country once the war ended.  Just as Iraq is an occupied country
today.

>LL>many more died later, in great pain, from radiation
>LL>poisoning.

BK>Not as many as you think. Both cities are now inhabited again,
BK>and bigger than ever. I have also read that the residents of
BK>those cities have a longer life expectancy than the average. One
BK>of the factors that led to a study that seems to show that
BK>exposure to somewhat elevated radiation levels increases life
BK>expectancy.

Most died instantly.  Others died later, over the course of decades,
from radiation poisoning.  There is nothing good about dropping atomic
bombs (or nuclear bombs) on living people.

--Lee


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