Text 36783, 100 rader
Skriven 2006-08-16 00:07:00 av BOB KLAHN (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av LEE LOFASO
Ärende: CELEBRATION!
====================
...

>>LL>Face it, Bob.  Harry S Truman was a mass murderer.  The
>>LL>Japanese high command had offered to surrender a full month
>>LL>*before* the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Now

BK>>As I recall, it was an offer of a condition filled surrender.

 LL> Of course it was.  After all, none of the Japanese high
 LL> command wanted to put on trial and sentenced to death.

 Since the Japanese high command were guilty of more murders than
 died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they had no right to expect
 anything else.

...

BK>>Removing a system that was more evil than even Bush claimed for
BK>>Iraq was necessary. The fact that the Japanese leadership was
BK>>not willing to agree to it meant that we would have had to
BK>>invade.

 LL> The Empire of Japan was a military dictatorship.  The
 LL> people of Japan had little (if any) say in how things were
 LL> run.  But how does any of what you said justify an already
 LL> defeated Japan?  Was it so important to hang the military
 LL> leaders of Japan, rather than accept a Japanese surrender?

 It was that important to remove the existing system. And that
 includes hanging the military commanders.

BK>>I will argue that what we did in insisting in a total change was
BK>>a net gain for the Japanese. If you think we have a problem with
BK>>trafficing of women, slavery, in Japan they didn't consider it a
BK>>problem, but a normal part of life. Before the war the
BK>>militarists solved their problem with internal disagreement by
BK>>killing the peace and democracy advocates.

 LL> The Saudis have no problem with the trafficking of women
 LL> and slavery, etc.  And neither do we, in regards to the
 LL> Saudis.

 I am perfectly willing to see the govt of Saudi Arabia
 overthrown.

...

BK>>I have read of what was done to our troops who were POWs, but
BK>>they did the same sort of things to civilian prisoner. The abuse
BK>>of civilian populations in conquered territories qualified the
BK>>entire Japanese military as a terrorist organization.

 LL> Even though the Japanese did not always treat American POWs
 LL> in accordance with the Geneva Conventions, we supposedly
 LL> treated Japanese and German POWs in accordance with those
 LL> conventions. As for civilian populations, what do you think
 LL> we did with those who collaborated with the enemy?  THE
 LL> SAME THING THE JAPANESE DID TO THOSE WHO COLLABORATED WITH
 LL> THE ENEMY.

 No, we did not. We did not order mass rape as a punishment. We
 did not rape women to death as a punishment. We did not commit
 mass murder as punishment.

BK>>For that the Japanese system had to be brought down. Which the
BK>>Japanese leadership was unwilling to do.

...

>>LL>many more died later, in great pain, from radiation
>>LL>poisoning.

BK>>Not as many as you think. Both cities are now inhabited again,
BK>>and bigger than ever. I have also read that the residents of
BK>>those cities have a longer life expectancy than the average. One
BK>>of the factors that led to a study that seems to show that
BK>>exposure to somewhat elevated radiation levels increases life
BK>>expectancy.

 LL> Most died instantly.  Others died later, over the course of
 LL> decades, from radiation poisoning.

 Radiation poisoning kills much faster than that. I believe you
 are confusing radiation induced cancer etc.

 LL> There is nothing good
 LL> about dropping atomic bombs (or nuclear bombs) on living
 LL> people.

 There is nothing good about droping any kind of bomb on living
 people. Sometimes the alternative may be worse. I won't even try
 to argue whether or not it was necessary then. I will say it was
 not what you claim it to be.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

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