Text 41077, 173 rader
Skriven 2006-10-10 15:00:34 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 41025 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
Ärende: Replace Bjorn?                      Was: DUD-file
=========================================================
09 Oct 06 17:24, Jeff Smith wrote to Roy Witt:

 RW>> 09 Oct 06 15:48, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Jeff Smith:

 MV>>>>> The only idea you have offered is: "replace Björn". When
 MV>>>>> presented with the real causes for the problems at hand you
 MV>>>>> turn a deaf ear.

 RW>> Proclaimed the pot.

 JS>      He knows that isn't the case. It's hard to talk to someone that
 JS> is stuck in a case of denial.

Subborn denial. His opinion is the only opinion, therefore, everyone
else's is irrelevant. He's as much a problem here as the non-performing
moderator and those he believes are the flamers. If he'd shut up and go
away, there'd be less flaming going on.

 MV>>>>> You pretend to be reasonable but in effect you are as stubborn
 MV>>>>> as a mule.

 RW>> Hmmm, he describes a dutch trait of which his is the most prominent.

 JS>     Don't know if it's a trait limited to the Dutch or not.
 JS> Regardless, it doesn't look like being reasonable is something he is
 JS> worried about.

Nor is he honest.

 MV>> say you want to work together for the benefit of FidoNet,

 RW>> You know of course that this won't happen as long as Vlist has any
 RW>> say in the matter. BTW, he seems to be the only one interested in
 RW>> beating you about the head and shoulders with this diatribe.

 JS>      Yup. Michiel found a tool (Fidonews) that he can use to try to
 JS> prove his points and to make sure that things stay the Z2 way. I
 JS> still am not sure of the Z2 way, or the Z1 way for that matter. It
 JS> never seemed important to look at things from a zonal point of view.
 JS> Michiel is sure fixated on looking at things that way though. A point
 JS> he refers too in almost every message on the subject.

Remind him of how the problem with someone from his zone, Helmut Hullen,
was such a problem that moderators couldn't control him. They had to have
the ZC excommunicate him, without filing a policy complaint.

 MV>>>>> but in effect you just want to impose your ways of doing on the
 MV>>>>> rest of us.

 RW>> LOL! As if that's not his agenda.

 JS>        Typtical tactic. Blame others for doing the very thing that
 JS> you are doing yourself.

Yes sir.

 JS>>>> Stubborn? Sometimes. In this case 'Determined' is a more
 JS>>>> accurate term.

 MvdV>>> Jehova's Witnesses are very "determined" too....

 JS>        Guess Jehova Witnesses are low on his buddy list. Gosh, an
 JS> American Jehova Witness must be the root of all evil to Michiel then?
 JS> <g>

Didn't you know that Vlist is an athiest? Don't speak god to him, don't
pray for him, etc...

 RW>> So are the North Koreans, but that's as far away from the subject as
 RW>> the Jehovah Witnesses from Fidonet, more specifically, this echo.

 JS>>>> I am determined to see that the problem in this echo isn't left
 JS>>>> as is. I am determinded to see that the moderator again acts as a
 JS>>>> moderator

 MvdV>>> He does act as a moderator. Just not the way you like.

 RW>> If he acted as a moderator, this thread wouldn't be allowed in this
 RW>> echo. It has nothing to do with Fidonews the publication.

 JS>      Agreed. If the moderator actually moderated I wouldn't be
 JS> talking like this either. Most of the discussion here has nothing to
 JS> do with Fidonews. I would think that many of the percieved
 JS> troublemakers now in this echo would act differently if they had some
 JS> respect for the moderator.

He, Vlist and a slew of others lost any respect that they may have had
long before they lost it here. And this has been brewing in just this echo
for about 4 years now.

 JS> I know that I would. It has been stated several times to me that I am
 JS> not taken seriously because I don't speak up to you and Frank and
 JS> chastise you for your behavior.

I've seen that and call it Their Hypocrisy...

 JS> I have tried to explain that that is exactly what the moderator
 JS> should be doing. I haven't chastised you just as I haven't chastised
 JS> Michiel or Björn F.

I see you getting that treatment by one here who doesn't seem to know
which side that coin he want's to be on.

 JS> I have indeed argued with Michiel and the oyhers though. I see it as
 JS> merely an attempt at avoiding having to deal with my questions.

Of course, because they really don't have any answers, so they blame it
all on us.

 JS>     Bottom line is that it isn't my place to act as moderator here.
 JS> That's the moderator's job.

Agreed...too bad there isn't one.

 JS>>>>  or a replacement is chosen.

 MvdV>>> And since he isn't going to act as moderator the way you like
 MvdV>>> it, because even if he wanted to do that, which he apparently
 MvdV>>> does not, that is impossible. And you know that.

 MvdV>>> So the bottom line: you want him replaced.

 RW>> Jeff, you should call the question; Does everyone else in the echo
 RW>> think that the, errr so-called moderator is doing his job? If not,
 RW>> then should there be an election held to find one who will? If yes
 RW>> to the first question, then everyone who doesn't like the present
 RW>> state of affairs in the echo, should put up or shut up. If yes to
 RW>> the second question, then call for and hold an election.

 JS>>>> I am determinded to see that the moderator again acts asa
 JS>>>> moderator or a replacement is chosen.

 MvdV>>> IOW you are just going to push and push and push until you get
 MvdV>>> your way.

 JS>        If Michiel is suggesting that I intend to continue to see that
 JS> Björn starts acting as a moderator or let's someone else take over
 JS> that will actually moderate. Then he is right. Again it doesn't
 JS> matter what zone the moderator is from. Just that the job gets done.

Did you know that Vlist walzed into the HAM echo and tried to hijack it?
He claimed that since I'm no longer in the nodelist he was taking over.
(I was dropped for a few weeks while I attended to a forrest fire)

 RW>> Vlist is amazed that there is someone more stubborn than he.

 JS>      Being stubborn isn't nessesarily bad. Where it becomes a problem
 JS> is when one refuses to listen to others or even consider the
 JS> possibility that there might be a better way. Regardless of what any
 JS> one person thinks there is always a better way that something can be
 JS> done. The truely ignorant person IMHO is the one that refuses to
 JS> listen to others. The ability to learn new ways stops at that point.

It doesn't matter because his is the only way.

 MvdV>>> Well, I don't want to be shoved anymore. You have shown your
 MvdV>>> true colours.

 JS>         As I have told Michiel I am a rather simple man. I work based
 JS> mainly on principles. Have fun but at the same time try to say what
 JS> you mean and mean what you have said. I wish I was more articulate
 JS> though sometimes.

Don't worry, you do just fine.

 RW>> The coward's way out.


               R\%/itt


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