Text 41280, 131 rader
Skriven 2006-10-15 01:50:26 av JEFF SMITH (1:282/1031)
  Kommentar till text 41247 av BJöRN FORSSTRöM (2:203/614.61)
Ärende: RE: DUD-file
====================
On Oct 14, 2006 08:28am, BJöRN FORSSTRöM wrote to JEFF SMITH:


 JS>>>>  Communication and understanding are two of the most important
 JS>>>> things that people can achieve.

 BF>>> I totally agree with you but sor far you haven't answerd the question,
 BF>>> why don't you try to communicate with the the other part (Shannon) as
 BF>>> well? Michiel isn't the only part in this and it's never once fault
 BF>>> that two argue.

 JS>>      I agree that it takes at least two to argue. And niether side is
 JS>> nessesaraly completely wrong or right.

 BF> And you still haven't answered my question (don't think I ever will get
 BF> one either) and as long as you are only questioning one side I don't
 BF> see you as impartial.

    I am questioning Michiel about his reasons for the use of the copyright
because HE is the one that is playing the copyright game. Who else would
I ask? If you are referring to me questioning or taking to task Shannon for
his conflicts with Bjorn and the alleged illegal stuff on Bjorn's website.
That is a separate issue. Michiel is trying to link the two issues with his
copyright game. Where have I criticized or even discussed the matter of
Bjorn's website with either Shannon or Bjorn? I haven't. My primary but
not only reason for not saying anything is that I was not active or around
at the time and did not know or understand enough of the situation about
Bjorn's website to form an opinion either way. I have since formed a limited
opinion based on the confrontation of both Shannon and Bjorn that I have
been privy too. But don't know enough to feel justified taking sides. My
opinion is that if Bjorn has/had illegal or copyrighted material on his
website. Then the applicable law should be enforced and he should pay whatever
price that the law requires. Regardless, I don't see the point of arguing the
matter here in this echo.

    I could ask you the same thing regarding not talking to Michiel about
the damage his copyright game has caused. But I will not as I don't think
it is necessary and besides it would be a rather silly question.  I have
pretty much resigned myself to the fact that it would not be politically
correct for you or Bjorn to see me as impartial or reasonable regardless
of what I say or who I talk too.

 BF>>> Until you do you will only increase the Z1 vs. Z2
 BF>>> thing  because now it's Z1 vs. Michiel and that isn't fair


 JS>>      But you have to take into account Michiel's many statements right
 JS>> here in this echo about his dislike of Z1 ways, Americans, Etc. When
 JS>> enough people from Z1 keep seeing that opinion expressed by Michiel
 JS>> they
 JS>> are bound to feel some degree of animosity.

 BF> So far I haven't seen much of his dislike of America or Americans, only
 BF> about doing it the Z1 way.
 BF> And you haven't seen the many statements from the rest of the world what
 BF> they think about doing it the Z1 way?

      Yup. There seems to be only a few from Z2 that have a significant
issue with the so called Z1 way. If there are others they don't seem to
think it enough of a concern to say anything. Personally I think that the
Zx way of thinking is pointless. But thinking that way is not the Z2 way <g>

 JS>> I have asked Michiel several
 JS>> times why he feels the need to look at the group as being bad when
 JS>> only a
 JS>> handfull of that group are in a conflict with Michiel.

 BF> So long as this group gets away with eveything they do without being
 BF> qustioned by anyone in Z1 (including you) they clearly speaks for
 BF> everyone in Z1.

     Now that's a cop out Bjorn. So long as a few gets away with everything
that they do here. They speak for everyone? Who is letting them get away
with everything? Who is the person responsible for talking to them and getting
them to stop? You are asking me to do what the moderator SHOULD be doing
but isn't and doesn't want to.

    Roy, Shannon, Frank, me, Tom, Harry, Dick no more speak for zone 1
than you, Bjorn, or Michiel speak for zone 2.

 BF> And I have asked you several times why you only take this up with
 BF> Michiel. Don't demand somthing from others that you can't live up to
 BF> yourself.

 JS>>      There are some that enjoy the verbal dueling and use most any
 JS>> opportunity to play the button pushing game.

 BF> I've said it before, go after then as well and tell them what you think
 BF> about their
 BF> behaviour too.

 JS>> But there are also many that
 JS>> just want to participate and end up getting put in a group based more
 JS>> on
 JS>> where they come from than on their behavior.

 BF> I can't argue with that.

 BF>>> and then I
 BF>>> can understand why he acts the way he does. What would you have done
 BF>>> if
 BF>>> you were in his shoes? Use some of the common sence you say you have
 BF>>> and
 BF>>> try to see things from both sides.


 JS>>      I have tried a number of times to understand both sides. I have
 JS>> questioned people on both sides to better understand the matter from
 JS>> both
 JS>> points of view.

 BF> Where, when, with whom?

 JS>> Michiel has pretty much refused to say what his reasons
 JS>> were or answer some basic questions. His attitude was that if I didn't
 JS>> already know then it was just too bad. That type of attitude only
 JS>> allows
 JS>> for a limited understanding.

 BF> That's just how the rest of the world feels about Roy, Shannon and
 BF> Frank as well.
 BF> Same shit, different places.

   Same shit, different places, different attitudes.

 BF> ---
 BF>  * Origin: . (2:203/614.61)

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 * Origin: The Ouija Board - New Hope, MN USA (1:282/1031)