Text 41397, 168 rader
Skriven 2006-10-16 18:53:04 av JEFF SMITH (1:282/1031)
  Kommentar till text 41331 av MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST (2:280/5555)
Ärende: RE: DUD-file
====================
On Oct 15, 2006 09:44pm, MICHIEL VAN DER VLIST wrote to JEFF SMITH:

 MVDV> Hello Jeff!

 MB>>>>> 1) Will you honor the request of a moderator even if you find
 MB>>>>> him undesirable?

 JS>>>>       Yes I would.  Regardless of whether I like a moderator. As
 JS>>>> long as they are impartial and fair in their moderating. I would
 JS>>>> respect that.

 MV>>> IOW, when *by your judgement* the moderator stops acting fair and
 MV>>> impartial, you will not hounour his request. Therefore the honest
 MV>>> answer would have been "no".

 JS>>      In case you didn't understand. What I said was that I would honor
 JS>> the moderator's request. If the moderator acted partially or unfairly
 JS>> I would then drop the echo from my system.

 MVDV> So why don't you practise what you preach? It is pretty obvious you
 MVDV> have no respect for the moderator and find him undesirable.

      The difference here is that the moderator doesn't act at all. He
doesn't provide people with the chance to see him act fairly or impartially.

 JS>> Although I would continue to carry it as passthrough if nessesary.
 JS>> It would not be right of me to let my opinion of the moderators
 JS>> fairness prevent others from getting the echo.

 MVDV> So what if the moderator - who you find undesirable - were to ask you
 MVDV> to cut a fed to one of your downlinks?

      If a listed moderator (Or in your case the person that is generally
considered the moderator) asked me to cut the feed to an echo that they
moderate for a downlink of mine. I would do so. The area that I would have
some concern is if the feed cut request would impact say a whole net instead
of just one node. That would be something that I would discuss with the
moderator.

 JS>>>>      And that makes sense to you? To me, the matter of Bjorn and
 JS>>>> his website is a seperate issue.

 MV>>> Tell that to Shannon Talley who was the leader in the crusade
 MV>>> against Björn over alleged copyright violation on Björn's
 MV>>> website.

 JS>>     If Shannon were to also treat it as a seperate issue. Then I woukd
 JS>> not have a problem with it.

 MVDV> It is obvious you have no idea of the history. Shannon did NOT treat
 MVDV> it as a separate issue. He has been trying to get Björn to resign as
 MVDV> FidoNews Editor *because* of the alleged copyright violations on
 MVDV> Björn's webiste. That wsa a major item in his crusade against Björn.

       I am the first to admit some ignorance regarding the history of the
website matter. That is why I have avoided offering an opinion.

       If Bjorn were to be replaced as moderator it should be only because
of his performance AS moderator. Any legal matters regarding his website
should be irrelevant as they are a separate matter. The only exception
would be if Bjorn himself chose to make them the same issue.


 JS>> Shannon is free to feel as he chooses just s you are. The problem
 JS>> arises when someone takes actions that needlessly link the two issues.
 JS>> Thus causing hard feelings that could have been avoided.

 MVDV> Right. And that is exactly what happened.

 JS>> Why the need to link Fidonews to Björn's website?

 MVDV> Ask Shannon. he was the one who did just that.

 JS>> Was it to help Björn in some way?

 MVDV> Obviously not. It was in an attempt to get rid of him.

 JS>>>>  Why play a game with Fidonews that will only result in further
 JS>>>> division in Fidonet?

 MV>>> Indeed, why make an all out effort of having the FidoNews editor
 MV>>> resign - thereby further dividing FidoNet - over some pictures on
 MV>>> a website?

     I have made no such effort over any pictures on his website. Any and
all comments that I have made regarding Bjorn were done solely in relation to
his performance as moderator. In fact I have never visited Bjorn's website
nor seen any of the alleged copyrighted pictures.

 JS>>      You are totally oblivious to the effect of your own actions
 JS>> aren't you? You act without either knowing or maybe even caring what
 JS>> effect those actions will have.

 MVDV> Talk to Shannon. He started this.

      And you are doing whatever you can to keep it going as much as
Shannon is. Why don't you try to finish it by dropping the matter? And
yes I would offer the same suggestion to Shannon.

 JS>>      My suggestions had NOTHING to do with Björn's website.

 MVDV> You do not know the history. In your ignorance yoy are rubbing salt
 MVDV> into the wounds.

      Wrong Michiel. I did not speak about what I felt ignorant of. Bjorn
should be responsible for his lack of moderating. Regardless of any wounds
that he may have about his website and his history with Shannon.

 MV>>> well, you have to ask Shannon, he ws the lead man in the crusade.

 JS>>>> Why play a game that you know will just create more bad feelings
 JS>>>> amoung people?

 MVDV> Ask Shannon, he started this.


      You just can't or are afraid of explaining yourself aren't you? Your
only answer to questions asked of you is to blame someone else of flatly
refuse to answer at all. You are largely to blame here Michiel and you
refuse to accept responsibility for your own actions.

 JS>>>>  If anything I think that Michiel's copyright game
 JS>>>> hurt Bjorn and people's perception of him as a moderator.

 MV>>> To much honour for me. Shannon had done al that two years ago
 MV>>> when he started his copyright game.

      Did Shannon submit your copyrighted articles for you? Did Shannon
insist that the distribution of your articles be restricted? No Michiel.
YOU DID!! Be responsible for your own actions instead of blaming others.
It is just this type of behavior that negates any credibility that your
argument might of ever had. The more you argue the matter the younger
you act.

 JS>>>>      Like I have said the website issue is seperate.

 MVDV> No it is not. You do not know the history.

       Then why in this very message do you suggest that I tell Shannon that
the website issue is separate if YOU don't believe that it is? You need
to get you argument straight there Michiel. <g>

 JS>>>> Bjorn could very well be a great moderator and still conduct his
 JS>>>> website in ways that I may or may not approve of or think is
 JS>>>> illegal.

 MVDV> Shannon and his gang believe otherwise.

 MV>>> Apparently Shannon and others think differently.

 JS>>      That is their choice.

 MVDV> It is the actions resulting form that choice that got us into this
 MVDV> mess.

      And you are doing your best to make the mess worse. Why not work with
those others then that want to help clean up the mess? Would you like to see
the mess cleaned up? If so, what are you willing to do to help?


 MVDV> Cheers, Michiel

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