Text 42330, 136 rader
Skriven 2006-11-07 05:08:31 av Jeff Smith (1:14/0)
  Kommentar till text 42324 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Insults
===============
Hello Michiel.

07 Nov 06 10:58, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff!

 MV> On Sunday November 05 2006 12:11, you wrote to me:

 MV>>> My surname is "van der Vlist". Just like my father and my
 MV>>> grandfather. I inherited it from them.  It is not "Vlist" and
 MV>>> "van der" is not my middle name.

 JS>>      And everyone is supposed to already know that how? People
 JS>> find out by either asking first if they have the forsight to do
 JS>> so. Or, they do as I would think most would do what they are used
 JS>> to doing until they find out otherwise.

 MV> You mean you are not clearvoyant and did not research the matter?

     Umm.. No I don't ask everyone that I converse with. Since people
even from the same country can have different preferences about their
names.

 MV>  You just used it as you always do?


     Huh? I have always used your first name. What am I missing here?


 MV>  Then why do you expect others to
 MV> do a lot more than that? Let me again remind you of what you wrote to
 MV> me a few weeks ago:


 jF>>      What country does the person live that you were responding
 jF>> to? Seems to me that you would know how your statement would be
 jF>> taken. When you communicate in an international forum such as
 jF>> this one should try to take that into account when choosing their
 jF>> words.

      That was regarding the use of language in general Michiel. I am
sure that you would agree that the usage of one's name is a much more
personal use of language and one's personal preference regarding their
name would therefore play a much more personal part.


 MV>>> I live here, I used the term as it is used here.

 jf>>     Since you chose to use the term it behoved you to consider
 jf>> the meaning it would have by the people that your were
 jf>> communicating with.

 MV> So why does it behove me to do extensive research to find out how the
 MV> words I choose will fall on your side if the pond, while for yourself
 MV> you think you can get away with "how am I supposed to know that?"?

     To avoid sounding ignorant for starters. Secondly it shows that you
care enough about communication to be aware of how what you say will be
taken. I was refering more about words and language in general. But in the
case of names. I hadn't asked you about your last name so I avoided using
it. Now that I know, I will use it should it become nessesary as requested.
The situation with you name is just a minor example of what I was refering
to regarding knowing how words might be taken. Like with your name I wouldn't
know about your individual preference until either I asked or you provided
the information. If the situation were reversed and you used my name in a
manner that I did not care for. I would inform you but wouldn't make an issue
of it. If someone were to insult me using an obviously wrong usage of my
name I might make a brief comment but would otherwise just consider the
source and ignore it. I would much rather spend my time doing things I enjoy
like conversing with you than worrying or arguing about people who might want
to insult me.



 MV> Seems to me you are applying a double standard.


     So when did Bjorn give you a copy of the article that I submitted? If
you want to talk double standards Michiel. Let's get down to it.


 JS>>>> I can not speak for the intentions of anyone but myself. I will
 JS>>>> say though that we tend to use a certain amount of latitude
 JS>>>> here in the use of peoples names. Myself included with no
 JS>>>> insult necessarily intended. An example here would be the first
 JS>>>> name of James. Variations here that might be used would be Jim,
 JS>>>> Jimmy, Jimbo, Jimster, Etc without there having to  be an
 JS>>>> insult intended.

 MV>>> I think that is typically American.


       I'll take that as an observation rather than an insult. As much
as you complain about being insulted. I am certain that you would only
want to treat others the way that you yourself would like to be treated.


 MV>>>  Over here we normally
 MV>>> address the people by the name they present themselves with. In
 MV>>> FidoNet that would be the name as in teh message header. The use
 MV>>> of diminutives is for adressing children. Used on adults it is
 MV>>> insulting.

 MV>>> O, yes and using the surname in the second person without "mr".
 MV>>> "mrs". "miss" or a title is considered insulting as well. When I
 MV>>> was young it was used to address a subordinate or an employee,
 MV>>> but that has gone out of fashion and is no longer considered
 MV>>> polite.


       I don't think that the either usage is necessarally wrong. I think
it is more a matter of a difference if how each country uses names. Here
people are often refered to by just their last name. For me it could be
used as in "Hey Smith" or "Is Smith here". With no insult intended or
taken. I can also understand how names are used differently over there.
That was the point I was making when I asked how was I supposed to know
how you prefered you name to be used prior to either asking you or providing
the information.

 MV>>> Cheers, Michiel

 MV>>> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 MV>>>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

 MV> BTW, could you trim down the quotes a little bit when replying please?


 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)

Jeff

--- FMail/Win32 1.60
 * Origin: Twin_Cities_Metronet - MN USA (1:14/0)