Text 44093, 107 rader
Skriven 2006-12-16 00:15:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 44041 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Insults
===============
Hello Roy!

On Thursday December 14 2006 13:51, you wrote to me:

 MvdV>>>> You expect others to respect *your* culture by

 RW>>> Wouldn't there have to be mutual respect for there to be any
 RW>>> respect at all?

 MvdV>> Absolutely. You get what you give. And since giving does not
 MvdV>> seem to be high on your culture's list of priorities, you can't
 MvdV>> expect to get much in return.

 RW> And vice versa.

The premise of symetry is not fulfilled. Your culture scores lower on giving
than others.

 RW>>> IOW, they'd  have to respect the idea that I employ someone to
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 RW>>> do housework so that I can have time with my wife when she gets
 RW>>> off work.

 MvdV>> They would respect it more if you just did the dirty work
 MvdV>> yourself while your wife is out working.

 RW> I see, they don't respect others for having, but demand respect for
 RW> their culture.

The only one making demands here is you. See above: "they'd *have* to respect..

 RW> So, we don't have the right to employ somebody without their approval?

It is not a matter of rights. The right you have. It is just that executing
that right does not get you any Brownie points on respect.

 MvdV>>>> but when it comes to respecting other cultures you could not
 MvdV>>>> care less.

 RW>>> I should have to care about a culture that doesn't respect mine?

In order to receive you have to give first....

 RW>>> either way, I provide society with a service by employing somene
 RW>>> who would be living on welfare or unemployment compensation.

 MvdV>> You don't provide a service to society, you provide a service
 MvdV>> to yourself. You help perpetuate a situation of gross
 MvdV>> inequality.

 RW> Who says that a cleaning lady is unequal to my status, other than she
 RW> is employed by me.

Can the cleaning lady afford to have her own cleaning lady? If the answer to
that is anything other than an uncoditional "yes", there obviously is an
unequality.

 RW> Where is the difference if she were the custodian of a school, for
 RW> instance? She's still cleaing and being paid for it.

There is no difference.

Point is that nobody accepts a job as a cleaner unless he/she has no choice.
Would you wife change het job with that of your cleaning lady?

 RW>>> Not to mention that the employed person has the self esteem of
 RW>>> knowing that she's not a burden to society and is providing for
 RW>>> her own welfare.

 MvdV>> Bullshit again. There is no self estime to be gained from
 MvdV>> having no choice

 RW> Ahhh, but she does have a choice and has taken the opportunity to move
 RW> on. She's free to come and go as she pleases and for all you know,
 RW> likes what she does for a living.

I don't believe that.

 RW>  She's no less of a person for it.

In that case your wife would have no problem swapping jobs with her?

 MvdV>> but to do the dirty work for others who are not willing to
 MvdV>> do it themselves.

 RW> So, you've never had your dirty clothes washed by your wife?

Both my wifes have cleaned my clothes when I lived with them.

 RW> Did she keep your house clean?

*Our* house. Yes they did that. On occasion..

 RW> If so, then she was just as much a servant to you, yet she wasn't paid
 RW> to do it.

No, it was not a master/servant relationship and there was no payment as it was
an equal status relationship. We took turns at doing the chores.

And it is the same with my present compagnion of life. We take an equal share
in doing the dirty work.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 * Origin: http://www.van.der.vlist.org (2:280/5555)