Text 10963, 127 rader
Skriven 2008-02-12 02:24:12 av Björn Forsström (2:203/614.61)
  Kommentar till text 10947 av Frank Vest (1:124/6308.1)
Ärende: Shootings in USA
========================
 BF>> I don't have any currrent fugures but I wouldn't say that. From what I
 BF>> read about it it's most folks coming from Poland and the Baltic countries
 BF>> that do the most stealing and some of them even do it to get caught and
 BF>> spend the winter in a Swedish prison and are getting payed for it.

 FV>  I have no figures either. I do know that I live in an area that many
 FV> consider "not the best". I have no problems with the area.

What I ment above is that they come to us to steal and then they normally
return back home. Don't think anyone knows how many high performence
cars that now are rolling in say Poland that comes from Sweden.

 FV>  I find it interesting that many of the crimes committed are from young
 FV> people in "higher class" neighborhoods, but the ones that make the news
 FV> are the "lower class" citizens that commit any crime.

The rich shouldn't be spoken about, not in a country that worship money and
we see that in Sweden too. It wasn't long ago some guys from the upper class
killed another guy, just because they are......bored. But by us it's talked
about.

 FV>  Please realize that the USA is considerably larger than Sweden. The
 FV> crime rate could be expected to be larger on that reason alone. I'm not
 FV> saying that as an excuse.

Naturally. The problem for us is that what happends in USA will happend even
here, only a year or so after.

 FV>> Was that a rant against your country? Sorry. :)
 BF>> No problem. I can take it. As I've said before, I'm not that patriotic so
 BF>> I say that Sweden is the best country in the world.
 BF>> If you find something else negative about Sweden I'm happy to discuss it
 BF>> with you and I would most likley agree with you.

 FV> I really don't want to dig up dirt on Sweden.

I can if you want me to since I haven't a problem with that.

 FV> I'd really like to see this
 FV> echo discuss the workings of Fidonet and how to improve that and get more
 FV> people interested in the Fidonet method of message distribution,
 FV> management and such.

If you don't have any messages to distribute threre is no use of discussing it.

 FV> It seems, however, that all that is left in Fidonet
 FV> are the "patriots" from all countries that have nothing to do all day but
 FV> "defend" their country from the other patriots in Fidonet. Said patriots
 FV> seem to patrol for any words that can be taken as an attack and then
 FV> strike back with unequal and opposite force. All claiming justification by
 FV> any means possible, or impossible.

You and I are on the same page.

 FV> The interesting thing is that when this whole thread started, one person
 FV> agreed with another person and the two ended up attacking each other
 FV> because neither read what the other actually said. Each assumed that the
 FV> other MUST be attacking and responded accordingly.

mmmm.......

 BF>> The thiefs aren't that desperate in Sweden. It's very rare that I read
 BF>> about a house beeing burglared while there are people at home. My wifes
 BF>> parents house were burglared when they weren't at home and that was done
 BF>> by "tourists" from, I think it was Poland. The police caught them at
 BF>> another burglary.

 FV> It would seem that perhaps your jails/prisons could be to blame, or
 FV> credit, for this. Since people are coming to Sweden to get caught, I guess
 FV> the prisons are rather nice places to stay instead of being correctional
 FV> and punishment facilities?

The System is to be blaimed. Those who are in a "normal" prison and not in the
Bunker in Kumla (a small town) have it better then many elderly at their homes.
They have free meals, free TV etc. etc. and are getting payed for it. No money
available for helping them to be better persons or treatment so when they have
done their time the only thing they have learned is from their fellow inmates
is
how to be better criminals.

 FV>> You say you would do anything to protect your life. That includes killing
 FV>> someone?
 BF>> I don't know since I haven't been there but if someone would come on at
 BF>> me with a knife the first thing would be to try to disarm him and if that
 BF>> doesn't work....next thing would be to try to knock him out...then I
 BF>> haven't a clue.

 FV> What if they came on to you with a gun? Although guns are banned, it is
 FV> possible to get them, right?

Those who want a gun can always get one I suppose. Our borders to the rest
of Europe is wide open. For me, I don't even think I can get a firearm, not
even
legally. Felten can correct me if he knows that I'm wrong.

 FV>> And yet you don't want to meet violence with violence? How can one kill
 FV>> someone without violence?
 BF>> First I would try to talk him out of it and if that doesn't work I do
 BF>> have the right to use as much force needed to put him out of action but
 BF>> if I should kill him it's most likley I would have to spend a couple of
 BF>> years in prison. But I'm not that scared about having a break-in. There
 BF>> is no way you can enter the house without being detected and then an
 BF>> alarm will go off and the system will call a central and they will send
 BF>> help and call the police.

 FV> Ok. I probably wasn't clear. Any form of resistance is violence. Knocking
 FV> the attacker out is violence on your part. The only thing you mentioned
 FV> that is not a form of violence is trying to talk the person out of it. Of
 FV> course, you could run away and that would not be violence on your part. :)

As a last resort I guess that I could be violent as well but we have a saying:
"Bättre fly än illa fäkta" meaning something like "It's better to run than
fight
badly" that I'm trying to live after.

 FV> We have alarms as well in many homes and the police are but a call away.
 FV> We also have "Neighborhood Watch" where your neighbor will call the police
 FV> if they see any unusual activity.

If there is a cop available as Bob A said in another msg. In our area at nights
there are only 2 cops and they have to cover an entire county so if they are
busy at the other end it will take them hours to come, if they come at all and
if they want backup they will come from Gothenburg and that's about 140 km
away.

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 * Origin: . (2:203/614.61)