Text 15435, 101 rader
Skriven 2008-05-16 09:47:42 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
  Kommentar till text 15407 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Guns
============
Hello Michiel.

16 May 08 11:43, you wrote to me:

 MV> Hello Jeff,

 MV> On Tuesday May 13 2008 21:54, you wrote to me:

 JS>>>>       Here guns have been a part of our culture since day one.
 JS>>>>  Their ownership and possesion by Americans are protected. That
 JS>>>> has been the way is has been and will be for the forseeable
 JS>>>> future.

 MV>>> That is probably what the slave owners said when slavery was
 MV>>> still part of the American culture.

 JS>>      I imagine so. The differance being that with slaves we are
 JS>> talking people. Not a thing such as a gun. Need I elaborate?

 MV> Not really, the pattern is clear.

     For you the pattern is fixed and unchangeable. Not because the
pattern doesn't change. But because you are either unwilling or
unable to see things any other way.

 MV> First you defend your guns by claiming it is part of your culure and
 MV> that there is nothing inherently wrong with culture.

    I neither defend or attack guns. They are things. By themselves
they are harmless. It takes a person to decide what the purpose of a
gun will be. For some a gun is a killing tool. For others it's a tool
to aquire food. It all depends on what purpose the user decides to use
the tool for.


 MV> When I then come up with examples of cultural aspects that by most
 MV> people in civilised countries is considered medieval and backward,

    Speaking for the masses again are you? How is the air up there on that
pedistal that you have placed yourself?


 MV> aspects that most countries have gone through but left behind, you
 MV> come up with excuses.

    My reasons are your excuses. Nothing more. The reason being that you
will not allow the consideration of anything else.


 MV> Example such as:
 MV> o Elimination of dissidents and deviants. Sexual, religious or
 MV> political.
 MV> o Slavery

 MV> And your response is "that was different".

 MV> I know that I have no hope of convincing you. Cultures do not change
 MV> because people change. Those who are in it, never see that there
 MV> something wrong. Too close to the trees to see the forest. The slave
 MV> owners did not see something was wrong with slavery because it was
 MV> part of their culture. Islamic fundamentalists do not see there is
 MV> something wrong with executing homosexuals because that is part of
 MV> their culture. You do not see that there is something wrong with your
 MV> addiction to guns because that is part of your culture. It takes an
 MV> outsider to see that.

   I understand what you are saying and I don't totally disagree. It is't
really (My Opinion) a matter of an addiction to guns. They are a tool to be
used when needed. You speak from YOUR viewpoint Michiel. YOUR viewpoint says
that we are addicted and that there are no other possibilities. I consider
myself somewhat of an average gun owner. I try to maintain a high degree of
cautiousness when handling firearms. My daughter is about to take her gun
safety training classes. Her choice and her desire. My point here Michiel
is that yes, gun are a part of our culture. But that doesn't mean that we
shouldn't treat them with respect and an eye on safety.



 MV> Cultures do not change because people change, they change because old
 MV> people die and young people with new ideas take their place.

 MV> Some time, some day, the people in the US will remelt their guns into
 MV> plows and declare their gun addiction history. Like slavery and witch
 MV> hunting. But I doubt you and I will live to see it...

     Probably not. Sadly there are many things that we and our generation
will never see. Given our ability to destroy ourselves I hope that future
generations are even able to say the same thing about their future.


 MV> Cheers, Michiel

 MV> --- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 MV>  * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Jeff

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