Text 21904, 133 rader
Skriven 2008-10-15 13:20:58 av Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
  Kommentar till text 21889 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
Ärende: Re: Socialism in the US of A
====================================
Dear Ross,
 
RC> But this question is still begged:
 
RC> How much worse would the holocaust have been?
 
The Holocaust was ended by the advancing Russian troops. All the Holocaust
death camps were located east of Berlin ... Auschwitz, Sobibor, Treblinka ...
 
True, there exists footage of Americans entering concentration camps. The human
disaster shown on those movies is only a fraction of reality.
 
Bergen-Belsen, the largest of the concentration camps in the west, was
liberated by the Brits. Westerbork in the Netherlands was liberated by
Canadians, Breendonk in Belgium was liberated by the Brits. You will now try to
read this in a wrong context but I'm merely trying to indicated that D-day and
the 11-months after that were not a US show.
 
The landing fleet of June 6th 1944 could sail because the seas were clear.
 
The Bismarck had already scuttled itself in battle with the Royal navy, the
Tirpitz had been blown to pieces by the RAF, the Sharnhorst had been sunk by
the RN, the Gneisenau bombed beyond repair by the RAF, the Graf Spee had
scuttled itself, Lützow was locked in the Baltic, Scheer was locked in the
Baltic, Blücher was sunk by Norwegian coastal defenses, Hipper decommissioned
after heavy damage by Brits and Prinz Eugen locked in the Baltic.
 
U-boat operations in the Channel are impossible because too shallow. The
approaches to the Normandy beaches were cleared of mines by the Belgian
minesweeper flotilla and the minisubs which were the beacons where heavy units
homed into when approaching Normandy were British.
 
I'm not hitting on the US, Ross, merely saying that landing of troops in
Normandy was possible because the Nazis had been defeated at sea already by the
Brits & friends.
 
And the next 11 months were exactly the same. It was not an American one man
show despite "Band of Brothers" etc ... but a cooperative effort with many
countries involved.
 
RC> How many more civilians would have lost?
 
The civilian losses mainly occured in Russia. The brutality and savageness of
advancing Nazi troops is often not well understood except by Russian scholars.
If some of our Russian freinds are reading here they will be able to confirm
that tens of millions of Russian civilians perished. Therefor the reduction of
civilian losses is mainly a credit to the USSR-troops.
 
RC> D-Day and the days and battles that followed proved decisive in Germany's
RC> defeat by giving it 2 fronts it could not withstand.
 
Of course, the US's entry shortened the war by years and redrew the map of
Europe.
 
RC> The next one will be China.
 
You've got your priorities wrong.
 
The nextone will be India or Brazil with Canada controlling all of the oil.
 
RC> Is the world prepared to abandon Taiwan?
 
Without a negotiated way out, is there another option?
 
Were China to invade Taiwan today, no-one would be able to come to its rescue
.... no-one would dare to come to its rescue even ...
 
RC>MV> No, they didn't. That is what you may have been taught in school, but
RC>MV> that claim does not stand up to scrutiny.
 
RC> Well the Dutch sure as hell didnt do it..
 
The eyes of many people are blinded by Hollywood products. "The Longest Day",
altough original B&W, gives a very coloured version of events. That movie was
made way too soon after it occured ... Like "The Sound of Music" drawing on
some facts but basically misrepresenting the Von Trapp family story.
 
"Saving Private Ryan" is a movie I love, but Hollywood again shows Americans
(something for which they cannot be blamed) and step by step history gets
rewritten. Then comes "Band of Brothers" ... and again the idea is sharpened
that it's only the US that counts.
 
RC> I have a few Aunts whom would beg to differ with you as they toiled in
RC> their early adult years (ww2) in bullet factories in and around Gary
RC> Indiana and Chicago Il.
 
Thank God for people like your aunts. Really!
 
RC> But why did Europe have to be freed from itself twice, regardless of the
RC> USA?
 
Aren't you glad that the German military offensive bogged-down in Europe and
the Focke-Wulf Condor long-range bombing raids on New York and Washington were
thwarted? You are aware, I hope, that Condors flow roundtrip missions to North
America? Try that with a conventional B17/29?
 
RC>LL>> Did well enough to ensure the freedom for many other countries as
RC>LL>> well.
 
RC>MV> Name three....
 
RC> Belgium, Nederlands and Sweden.
 
Belgium and the Netherlands were mainly liberated by the British and Canadians.
Sweden never entered the war, it remained neutral, therefor did not need to be
"liberated". Belgium didn't get any Marshal aid as well.
 
The April 5th 1943 B17 bombing raid on my town which wiped-out most of its
population and destroyed 3 schools (500 children killed) is still labeled "an
immense victory" by the archivist of the 8th US AirForce although they missed
their target completely.
 
Next?
 
RC> You might recall the great revolution occurred in the midst of your first
RC> great war, you know the one sparked by royalty worshipping?
 
Actually, the revolution started in 1905 with the general strikes in Odessa and
the mutinity on battlecruiser Potemkin. But don't let these petty verifiable
facts cloud your version of events.
 
RC> Of course the catch-22, they more they modernize, it might mean higher
RC> wages for their people, then their stuff wont be cheap anymore.
 
Indeed. They also get better health care, become stronger both physically and
economically, therefor weigh more on the world food supplies diversifying from
rice as their staple to other forms of proteine thereby making certain products
scarcer. 
 
 \%/@rd

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