Text 22008, 206 rader
Skriven 2008-10-16 12:52:13 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
  Kommentar till text 21959 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Legal Strictions
========================
16 Oct 08 09:54, Robert Bashe wrote to Roy Witt:

 RB> Roy Witt wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday October 15 2008 at 07:51:

 RW>>>> Back to God again, where he said you shouldn't kill aka murder.
 RW>>>> God's punishment for that was a life for a life.

 RB>>> "God"?

 RW>> First example; Cain slew Abel. Cain was banished, by God, to the
 RW>> wilderness.

 RB> Or at least that's what some human wrote, possibly under the
 RB> influence of alcohol or marijuana (which was commonly used at the
 RB> time). "God" has never written a single line, nor has he used some
 RB> benighted human as a secretary, as the Moslems would like you to
 RB> think. Every single word of the Bible, the Koran and whatever they
 RB> all are called was written by a human being with the usual
 RB> prejudices, attitudes and opinions.

Perhaps they were drunk, but they claimed that they wrote under the
influence of the Holy Spirit. Moses spoke to God, as did many others, so
it's not beyond belief that the writings weren't inspired by that same
Holy spirit.

 RB>>> Or people who take it upon themselves to proclaim what they
 RB>>> consider his word?

 RW>> Many have done so, but that is blasphemy in the eyes of you know
 RW>> who.

 RB> Then the Bible and the Koran are blasphemy, and anything else that
 RB> claims to proclaim the word of "God". At the very best, call them
 RB> plagerism. At worst, simple fraud for personal aggrandizement.

Believe what you will; if you're right nothing is lost, but if you're
wrong, all of eternity is lost to you.

 RB>>> And use that as a power basis for themselves?

 RW>> Catholic church, Spanish inquisition, to name merely one example.

 RB> One small example. But the atrocities that have been justified with
 RB> quotations from the Bible or Koran are many - and breathtaking.

Small my ass! The Spanish inquisition began in 1468 and wasn't officially
ended until 1834! Unlike the holocaust, there were more victims of the
inquistion than jews. Christians, catholic and protestant alike, jews and
muslims were persecuted and executed.

 RB>>> That particular quote, incidently, was taken from the Hammurabi
 RB>>> Code, later ported into the Bible. It has nothing to do with any
 RB>>> "god".

 RW>> No Bob, that was one of the original ten commandments given to
 RW>> Moses.

 RB> That's what some bearded, self-appointed "prophet" wrote anyway.

Jewish history reports it as being actual. They should know, being their
ancestors were there and recorded it for all time.

 RB> Still historically wrong.

Not according to the hebrews, who were actually there at the time.

 RB>>> Some of the most vicious atrocities perpetrated in this world over
 RB>>> time have been in the name of some god or another.

 RW>> The Hebrew God is a god of love.

 RB> That's what the Moslems say too. Only a fool can believe either one,
 RB> seeing the facts.

Or not believe, being the other case.

 RB>  And I don't mean just the present facts, where Moslems run amok
 RB> because of a few cartoons in a Danish newspaper. I mean the killing
 RB> and looting some self-styled christian "Crusaders" practiced in
 RB> _christian_ Constantinople because the loot was better there than in
 RB> Jeruselum.

Actually, it was the muslims who began that era of 'holy wars' too. And
when the 'holy' koran was eventually translated into a Euro language, the
fact that it says that's alright to kill all christians, because they're
none believers, would frighten anyone.

 RW>> A lot of evil is done in the name of God by people claiming to serve
 RW>> the deity. That is the ultimate betrayal, the top of the evil
 RW>> pyramid. God does not sanction murder, child abuse, or any other
 RW>> kind of destructive behavior.

 RB> Also my attitude, but you'll still find many people who adhere to the
 RB> commandment "Thou shalt not kill - unless the other guy's a bastard".

I'd classify anyone who 'murders' someone, a bastard. They're just as low
a bastard as a child molester.

 RB>>>>> That's the kind of thinking I object to, particularly from people
 RB>>>>> who call themselves "believers".

 RW>>>> They're just following orders from above.

 RB>>> That's what the accused Nazis at the Nuremberg trials said too, and
 RB>>> they were hung despite that.

 RW>> The difference was; their above was Der Fuhrer, not any god.

 RB> Better check your facts. There was enough religious theory spouted
 RB> during that time to "prove" that all the nasty deeds were "willed by
 RB> God", and that the Fuehrer only carried out that will.

That is what 'Mein Kamph' is all about. Those aren't facts, just the
rantings of a madman.

 RB>  You can "prove" anything you want as long as you base your arguments
 RB> on belief and not hard facts.

Great! You do believe that Adolph was right then and all of his madness
was granted to him by God.

 RW>> Life is a constant struggle between good and evil and each person
 RW>> has a free will and must choose a side.

 RB> True, but:

 RB> - Define "good" and "evil" (and already we're talking opinions and
 RB> beliefs)

Nothing wrong with that, as moral societies have already done it for us.

 RB> - Define "higher values" - do something evil and save your family, or
 RB> refuse and see them shot.

Saving your family can't be evil, unless you and your family are evil and
need to be done away with.

 RB> There are a few other things involved, but those give a nice start.

They're not much to go on, if you don't have any faith.

 RW>> Most Germans weren't Nazi, but most stood by and allowed what
 RW>> happened to happen because they were afraid or apathetic.

 RB> Have to agree with you there.

 RB>>> Unfortunately, a certain Corporal Calley who used the same defence
 RB>>> for atrocities committed in Vietnam, was not similarly punished.
 RB>>> But of course, he was not on the losing side.

 RW>> Errr, Lt William Calley was convicted of premeditated murder of 22
 RW>> Vietnamese civilians at My Lai. If convicted, Calley faced the death
 RW>> penalty. Consequently, he was sentenced to a life sentence in
 RW>> prison.

 RB> The rank was my mistake and you are correct. But since when is the
 RB> death penalty so-called "life" in prison?

His first punishment was the death penalty. His sentence was later reduced
to life in prison. Frankly, if I were him, I'd prefer the death penalty
over life in prison.

 RB> And while we're at it, why do people use the euphemism "life
 RB> imprisonment" when they really mean (in Germany) 15 years or so?

It has to do with the way the law is written. In the states, they'll give
them a sentence of 25 years to life. The 25 year part means that they
can't even be considered for release until they've served 25 years of
their sentence. Many 'lifers' never get out, but on occasion, some do. It
all depends on the 'heinous' part of the crime.

 RB> Is that just an attempt to make the punishment sound harsher than it
 RB> really is, to satisfy the victim's relatives?

Nope.

 RW>> In the end, Calley was released to a Georgia Congressman in 1974.

 RB> The wonder is that they didn't _elect_ him a Georgia Congressman.
 RB> Hypocrisy pure.

Had their not been the 'anti war' crowd and a government who wanted to
avoid anymore 'atrocities', he would have been executed long ago.

 RB>>> If there is a God, he gave people a brain and the power to use it.
 RB>>> Which they should do more often - and use him much less as a cheap
 RB>>> excuse for their own misdeeds.

 RW>> As I recall the Calley case from those days, there was never any
 RW>> mention of 'doing' those Vietnamese in the name of God. It all
 RW>> boiled down to his fear of the Viet Cong infiltrating every aspect
 RW>> of his life, including every villager he came across.

 RB> Which is true, but not what I wrote. I would have hung the SOB and
 RB> scattered his ashes in the local river the same as they did with the
 RB> Nuremberg war criminals. Fair is fair.

That certainly would have done a lot of good for the reputation of the US,
that's for sure.

                R\%/itt



--- Twit(t) Filter v2.1 (C) 2000
 * Origin: SATX Alamo Area Net * South * Texas, USA * (1:397/22)