Text 31960, 243 rader
Skriven 2009-05-02 07:35:02 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 31944 av Roy Witt (1:397/22)
Ärende: Unlocking services
==========================
Roy Witt wrote to Robert Bashe on Friday May 01 2009 at 11:18:

RB>> In such cases, you have to hook up the phone to a "programming box"
RB>> and use special software to "flash" the EEPROM.

RW> Old School.

New school, as already mentioned.

RB>> http://unlockme.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php

RW> See if the tinyurl works, if not, copy this...

RW> http://tinyurl.com/cvy2pw

RW> They advertise:

RW> UNLOCK YOUR PHONE TO WORK ON ALL COMPATIBLE GSM NETWORKS!

They can claim anything they want, and I've seen enough unlocking sites to know
what they can do and what they can't. Go to one of them and see what they say
about an unlock code for a Nokia 1650 (DCT4+ phone), or any of the others
mentioned as being impossible to unlock with a (generated, not from the
provider) code on the website I cited  above. You'll get something like "this
phone cannot be currently unlocked with a code". I've tried this many times and
all the claims in the world don't change it.

They can unlock a Nokia 1600 or 1200 - but I can do that too, without them -
but not a Nokia 1650 or many other currently sold phones.

Take a look at:

http://www.unlocks.co.uk/unlocking.php

Enter Nokia 1650 as the phone, click on "next" and see what you get. So much
for advertising claims.

The one you cited was on Ebay, incidentally, with such global claims that my
hair curled.

RB>>>> If you have someone near you who can do the job and you can bring
RB>>>> the phone over to them, this can be simple. But if you have to send
RB>>>> it off somewhere, the job can become more expensive than it's worth
RB>>>> to remove the lock.

RW>>> Old school, Bob.

RB>> New school, Roy. Nowadays (and with anything but Nokia), you need
RB>> fairly expensive hardware (around EUR 200) to unlock most phones -
RB>> I've only seen an unlock code calculator for a few isolated Nokia BB5
RB>> models, not the newer stuff. And the unlocker needs to physically
RB>> possess the phone - no more Internet unlocking by code.

RW> Old School, Bob  See URL above...

New school, Roy. Don't believe advertising claims until you've informed
yourself.

RB>> By the way, nothing says that a phone acquired from another provider
RB>> _must_ be SIM-locked, although it _can_ be.

RW> If you aquire one from the provider you're intending to use, they only
RW> give/sell you a cell phone that is locked to their system.

That's not necessarily the case in Germany. Phone packages with a subsidized
(bare-bones) phone are always SIM locked here, but the phones you get "free" on
a contract basis from a provider are generally unlocked because the provider
has nothing to lose - you pay regardless, because of the contract, not like
with prepaid SIMs, where you only pay if you actually use them.

RB>> If there's no SIM lock on the phone or the SIM you want to install
RB>> comes from the same provider as the one you bought with the phone, no
RB>> problem. I've done this too.

RW> If you provide me with a T-Mobile SIM, I can remove my AT&T SIM and
RW> insert the T-Mobile SIM into my 'unlocked' phone and operate it on
RW> their system.

Sure, no problem.

RW> There's no SIM lock here that I know of.

You'd know if there were the second you tried to use a SIM from a different
provider and got an error message when you switched the phone on. If you don't
get an error, there is no SIM lock present.

RW> What is locked is the capability to operate on the frequencies used by
RW> the other systems. On an unlocked phone, Under 'Settings' - 'Networks'
RW> - 'Available Networks' - I find both AT&T and T-Mobile are available.

There are only two frequencies used in Europe and mostly elsewhere outside the
USA and Canada, and two in the USA and Canada. The only time you run into
trouble with the frequencies is when you try to use a cell phone from the USA
in Europe or vice-versa. Unless you have a "triband" or "quadband" phone - they
used to be rare but nowadays are more common and inexpensive - you won't get
any connection at all.

RW> When I 'View' T-Mobile, I see this code; 310-260 and on AT&T I see
RW> this code; 310-410. I only have an AT&T SIM, but if I had a T-Mobile
RW> or a 'Dual' SIM, I can 'Register' the phone with either provider.

The first three numbers are the MMC (mobile country codes) for the providers:

http://www.celtnet.org.uk/mobile-phone/country-code-list.html

The second three are the MNC (mobile network code). These are needed in cases
where you can calculate an unlocking code (DCT3 and DCT4 phones).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_codes_in_the_United_States

RW>>>>> The pay-as-you-go (PAYG) Motorola I bought didn't get a chance to
RW>>>>> be used as a PAYG phone. It was put into service on my existing
RW>>>>> account SIM card.

RB>>>> No problem as long as the phone has no SIM lock.

RW>>> I've never seen or heard of a phone like that.

??? I thought you said your phone didn't have a SIM lock and that you could use
any SIM you wished in it. Now I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

RB>> Possibly this is something that does not exist in the States, but at
RB>> least in Germany, the "bare-bones" mobile phones are often sold in
RB>> packages with a SIM of a provider at cutrate prices (provider
RB>> subsidy) and are SIM-locked to the provider. The provider makes it's
RB>> money through the relatively high phone rate you have to pay. Two
RB>> years after the purchase, you can ask the provider for an unlock code
RB>> (DON'T CONFUSE THIS with the codes you can get for Nokia DEC-3 and
RB>> DEC-4 phones from various sources including the one I cited above, as
RB>> nobody but the provider can supply unlock codes for newer Nokia
RB>> models), which you get free. Any time before that, you have to pay
RB>> (generally) EUR 100 for the code. After you enter it, you can use any
RB>> SIM you like.

RW> The difference I see is the 'two year implied contract'...If your
RW> pay-phone's minutes run out of minutes, and you don't replenish them,
RW> you lose the number, unless you re-activate it by buying more minutes.

Yes, and this was universal up until 1-2 years ago, when a number of providers
were sued by consumer organizations for simply keeping any balance on the SIM
when it was shut down after a specific time without use, or the validity period
was not extended by adding to the balance. In some cases, consumers lost fairly
large amounts of money like this.

Meanwhile, the main providers here no longer set a "cutoff date" for the SIM -
the balance on it stays active until it's used, and the SIM is never
deactivated. Those who don't follow this policy refund the balance on the SIM
when it is deactivated because of non-use.

RW> There is no contract required with any carrier to use a pay-phone. And
RW> frankly, I wouldn't even consider a Nokia made phone for this, since
RW> more modern phones, like the Motorola RAZR V3 is much more capable
RW> than the Nokia.

Matter of taste. Bus as for the contract, none is "required" here either. You
can buy a new or used phone without a SIM lock and throw in any SIM you like,
be it one on a 2-year contract or a prepaid SIM. Some people like the contracts
because the rates are lower and many offer you a new "free" phone every two
years as a "renewal benefit". Naturally your "free" phone costs much more than
if you simply bought one off the shelf (because of the money you spend for the
contract calls), but this doesn't bother some people (or they simply don't
think about it).

RW>>> Your phones don't have the feature that allows ID number blocking?
RW>>> i.e. all of my phones can be set to not show the number I'm calling
RW>>> from.

RB>> You can do that for an individual call (menu entry), but I'm not sure
RB>> whether you can shut off the feature completely or not. However, the
RB>> point of the law (which also applies to phone contracts) is to make
RB>> sure a call can be traced (by the police) back to a specific SIM
RB>> owned by a known person.

RW> Which is why you can only get a phone with a locked SIM in Germany.

You've misunderstood me, Roy. We're not talking about SIM locks here, only
about registration of a SIM when you buy it. And there's nothing to force you
to buy a SIM together with a phone. You can buy a phone without a SIM anywhere
just by putting your money on the counter.

RB>> Naturally, this isn't airtight. A criminal can buy "pre-owned" SIMs
RB>> with practically no balance on them, load a few Euro, and use the
RB>> phone with a SIM registered to another person.

RW> Available on Ebay for a song.

Here too. That's why this registration business only hurts "honest criminals"
;-) The rest just steal a cell phone or use SIMs they pick up from Ebay or a
flea market. The government doesn't like that, but up to now hasn't done much
if anything to stop it. Assuming they could anyway.

RB>> Dialing a phone number and entering an unlock code (in an older
RB>> Nokia) are two completely different things. The phone number is
RB>> simple. The code entry is not - and yes, I've done this kind of thing
RB>> in the past. Not only do you have to generate a valid code (which is
RB>> easier said than done), but the entry is time-dependent. If you
RB>> hesitate for more than a second or so between digits, the entry is
RB>> void. And if you make mistakes in the entry, the phone will lock
RB>> completely (can then only be unlocked with hardware and software)
RB>> after 3-5 failed tries, depending on the phone's firmware.

RW> You can't use the 'address book' to write it to and then use that
RW> address to call the number and then send the code?

No, since there's no number to call. You enter the code entry mode by typing a
certain sequence into the phone after starting it, and then must directly enter
the unlock code. At that point, you can't even reach the address book, and
since the unlock code doesn't involve a phone number, that wouldn't help you
anyway.

I must again note that the above applies to Nokia cell phones, and _probably_
to others, but I only have first-hand experience with Nokia.

RW>>> Man...they've got you coming and going.

RB>> All depends on how much you phone. If you only phone rarely, such
RB>> packages are a good deal because of the subsidized phone. If you're a
RB>> frequent phoner, you're better off with an unlocked phone and a SIM
RB>> from a discount provider - or a contract (two years minimum, but
RB>> prices lower than with the prepaid SIMs).

RW> My friend, Andrew, who has one of these pay phones, is always
RW> complaining that he's burning 25 cents/min and has to hang
RW> up...meanwhile, I have unlimited minutes, plus rollover minutes to
RW> talk all day and night long. Of course, if he only had to pay 5
RW> cents/min, he'd still bitch about the cost.

;-)  But as I say, it all depends on your phoning behavior. I rarely use a cell
phone - and that applies to my family as well - so as a result we are happy
with the prepaid SIMs (where the current rate is EUR 0.09 per started minute).
If we phoned a lot with the cell phones, we'd be better off with the kind of
monthly flat rate you have (also offered here) or a 2-year contract.

There are even people here who have cancelled their land lines and ONLY use
mobile phones, which I consider somewhat risky - we recently had a total
collapse (first time ever!) of the T-Online system for an entire afternoon in
Germany - there was a problem with their main computers, the ones responsible
for switching calls - and some people were really unhappy.

Cheers, Bob

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