Text 4570, 121 rader
Skriven 2007-07-17 16:37:17 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
   Kommentar till text 4560 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
Ärende: do the math
===================
Hello Jeff.

16 Jul 07 22:15, you wrote to me:

 DD>>>> When you were a moderator were you unable to separate that from
 DD>>>> your being as a sysop? Poor you.

 JS>>>     On the contrary. I did not have a problem separarting the
 JS>>> roles and keeping them separate. It made my job as moderator
 JS>>> alot easier when I expressed my personal views in other forums
 JS>>> and kept them out of the echo I moderated.

 DD>> But... this is as suitable outlet for his opinions as any other
 DD>> echo. Why should the rest of the Fidonet sysops get to post here,
 DD>> but he is forbidden. Is such discrimination a normal thing in
 DD>> your way of life?

 JS>      Do you choose not to undestand?

I understand that you want Bjorn to conform to your belief of how a moderator
should behave when he's not wearing his moderator's hat.

 JS>  It isn't a matter of
 JS> discrimination and he is not forbidden. If anything it is a matter of
 JS> common sense. If someone knowingly acts in a manner that makes their
 JS> job needlessly harder. That to me shows a lack of common sense. No one
 JS> is forbidding Felten anyhing. That is only what you are suggesting it
 JS> to be. He has any number of forums to express himself. If Felten
 JS> chooses to alienate people in the echo that he is trying to moderate.
 JS> It would seem that either he doesn't care about the Fidonews echo and
 JS> it intended purpose or he is more interested in using the Fidonews
 JS> echo for his own personal platform. In either case Fidonet and
 JS> Fidonews suffers.

Maybe he should submit his postings to the Fidonew editor and have them
publised in the snooze - they would have every right to be aired in the echo
then as well. (according to the echo rules).

 DD>>>> All sysops have as much right as each other to express an
 DD>>>> opinion.

 JS>>>      Yes, all SysOp's have the right of expression. BUT, the key
 JS>>> is if they have the wisdom to know when it is best to not
 JS>>> express themselves. That would hold true for users but
 JS>>> especially for moderators.

Wisdom? - your wisdom, not anyone else's?

 DD>> Moderators are just people too - they're not gods of any sort.

 JS>      Someone doesn't have to be a God to use common sense David.

Whose common sense, your's or mine?

[...]

 JS>>>      He has dug the hole that he finds himself in David. The
 JS>>> prime offenders ignore him because (In part) he has made them
 JS>>> want to ignore him based of his actions. Some of the blame needs
 JS>>> to go to the users too. But a moderator only makes his/her job
 JS>>> worse when they end up alienating the users.

I guess all he can do is ignore them too then as he cannot do anything about
them. Why don't you?

 DD>> Some of the users are very well behaved.

 JS>      Yes they are and I would say that they are probably smarter than
 JS> us too. As they are smart enough to avoid the temptation to join in
 JS> the chaos.

What chaos? If one is going to have people from different cultures expressing
their opinions in an open forum, there is going to be a difference of those
opinions. This is a free enviroment, we ARE allowed to express our thoughts
here.

 DD>> Do you think he should back down and crawl to those few Z1
 DD>> rabble-rousers? Would than improve his standing in their eyes
 DD>> then?

 JS>      Back down from what? Most of what we see Felten do is post his
 JS> anti-american messages. There is no need for Felten to crawl to
 JS> anyone. An effective moderator wouldn't have to.

But - he must stop expressing his opinion of the USAmerican system while others
laud it? Can you say "censorship"?

 DD>> [...]

 DD>> Why do they dislike the current moderator? What is it about his
 DD>> moderation habits that pisses them off?

 JS>      Many dislike him based on his posts as a user.

Too bad for them. He has as much right as a user to express his opinions as the
fanatically pro-USAmerican posters have to express theirs. You have to
understand, not everyone loves the US system.

 JS> Many dislike him as a moderator because they see him as non-existant
 JS> in that capacity.

Most of those who state that are full off bullshit. He has sent moderator
messages to many of the noisier parties in this echo in the past to no avail.
What else can he do?

 JS> Many see him as a modrator only caring about using the Fidonews echo
 JS> to express his own personal ideas and not use the Fidonews echo for
 JS> it's intended purpose.

What is it's intended purpose? Have you ever experienced it where that was the
only thing happening?

 JS> These are but a few things that I think piss
 JS> people off about Felten as the moderator.

And they have a right to express that pissed off state, but Bjorn doesn't?

David

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.4.7
 * Origin: Jabberwocky (3:640/305)