Text 7088, 166 rader
Skriven 2007-10-06 12:59:02 av Jeff Smith (1:14/5)
   Kommentar till text 7077 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: FidoGazette
===================
Hello David.

06 Oct 07 16:32, you wrote to me:

 DD> Jeff Smith -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>>> Was that message signed "moderator" or "editor"?

 JS>>     Doesn't really matter. What matters is how the users see him.
 JS>> If they see him, his insults, his hatreds, his bashing, his
 JS>> arrogance in the same echo that he also moderators. That is what
 JS>> they will associate with the Fidonews echo and the Fidonews. Does
 JS>> the editor and/or moderator care? Doesn't look like it. Therein
 JS>> lies the problem David.

 DD> How _some_ "users" see Björn is their problem - is it not?

     It is also Björn's problem too. If Björn has good intentions but
the way he expresses or presents himself leaves the users with an opinion
of him that was not accurate. Who's fault is that? If Björn see's that
people are not seeing him correctly and he either doesn't care or does
nothing about it. Who's fault is that?

 DD>  We in the free world

    Aren't you taking alot upon yourself David speaking for the free
world?

 DD>  see most of you US Americans as arrogant evil imperialist bastards.

    I'm sure that some Americans are. Just like some from your country as well
as most others countries.

 DD> Will you be changing your ways to alter our perception of you, or will
 DD> you be telling us to "shut up and get over it, that we're wrong"?

    I would look at the way *I* was expressing myself to try to see if
*I* was to blame for people's opinion of me. And if so I would work to
to try to correct people's opinion.

 JS>> If Felten shows people that he doesn't give a damn. THAT is what
 JS>> the users will see regardless of Felten's actual intent. He has
 JS>> stated that he is perfectly capable of keeping his roles
 JS>> seperate. That could be true David but it doesn't mean much when
 JS>> that isn't what he shows the users. They see him, his actions,
 JS>> his inactions, his biases, his insults, Etc. THAT i what they see
 JS>> and that is what they will associate with Fidonews.

 DD> I repeat, what _some_ users perceive is their problem. Not all users
 DD> see Björn through the same shit coloured glasses that you use - are
 DD> they wrong too?

     If Björn continues to not care what people think of him or not care
to try to correct peoples incorrect perceptions of him. Then the problems
that he currently has will continue. And he will have noone to blame but
himself.


 JS>>>>     Yet you feel that you can be as insulting and arrogant as
 JS>>>> you like. After all you are the editor and the moderator here.
 JS>>>> A fine example you set for the users.

 DD>>> What is this fixation you have for Björn being some sort of role
 DD>>> model? Is that written somewhere in his job specs?

 JS>>      It doesn't have to be in the job description to be a desired
 JS>> and common sense type of thing.

 DD> Common to whom? Why must the whole world conform to _your_ view of how
 DD> thing should be, why isn't Björn allowed to work by his values? Do you
 DD> really think you're that important?

    No more or less than you David. Just how important are you feeling these
days?

   Björn should be free to operate *himself* based on his own values. I do
not dispute that. But, Björn is also the Fidonet editor and moderator. Is
it correct to subject Fidonews to the result of Björn's vaules regardless
of how good or bad they are? Hypothetically, lets say you were the editor
and moderator and you were a total asshole, hated most everyone, had little
good to say about much of anything. But, you didn't let your personal views
or values affect your duties as editor or moderator. Regardless of my personal
opinion of *You* I could accept you as editor and moderator. And no, I am
not suggesting that Björn is that bad.


 JS>> And no, Björn doesn't need to be a role
 JS>> model. But one would think that since he is also the editor and
 JS>> the moderator that he would have some interest in what people
 JS>> think of the Fidonews and the Fidonews echo. Or is it that his
 JS>> priorities are more focused on his ability to have a forum for
 JS>> his own personal use.

 DD> Many others use the forum - _you_ included - for airing their
 DD> opinions. It obviously is _not_ his personal forum.

    But that seems to be the way he looks at it. And it look like others
see it that way too and are acting the same way. People see how Björn acts
David and respond in kind.

 JS>>>> It must be one of the those do as I say, but not as
 JS>>>> I do type of things. You cry freedom of speech when bashing the
 JS>>>> people, the governments, and the countries that you dislike.

 DD>>> Does he sign these cries "moderator' or "editor"? Björn is a
 DD>>> sysop in Fidonet, just as you and I are. He is entitled to an
 DD>>> opinion just as you and I are.

 JS>>     Your absolutely right David. And I have never suggested that
 JS>> he doesn't have the right to his opinion. He also has the right
 JS>> to dislike or hate whatever or whomever he chooses. That isn't
 JS>> the point and you know it.

 DD> Of course, I get it... He is allowed his opinions, and allowed to hate
 DD> whomever he wants to, as long as he doesn't air those views anywhere
 DD> where his views don't conform to yours.

    Not even close. But it would help if you were willing to "Get it"
David. He is allowed his opinions, and allowed to hate whomever he wants
to, as long as he doesn't let it affect his duties as editor or moderator.

    People's opinions of Björn's personal views should be irrelevant. Up
to the point where Björn's personal views affect his job as editor or
moderator.


 JS>>>> While you do have
 JS>>>> that freedom do you also have the wisdom to know when it is
 JS>>>> best to use it? For the Fidonews to survive the editor and
 JS>>>> moderator should be more concerned about what is best for
 JS>>>> Fidonews and less concerned about themselves and their ability
 JS>>>> to attack that which they don't happen to like.

 DD>>> That's your opinion - and you're entitled to it, however much it
 DD>>> sucks. Why is Björn not entitled to one too?

 JS>>      There you go. In your mind the use of commom sense and the
 JS>> use of wisdom sucks.

 DD> Common sense? Common to whom? Your view of common is not common
 DD> everywhere. When will you get that through your mind? We out here in
 DD> the free world don't always see things as you do.

 JS>> That would explain why you are defending Felten. My opinion
 JS>> is to use wisdom and common sense in the execution of one's
 JS>> responsibilities. And you think that idea sucks.

 DD> Wisdom and common sense are very subjective, not everyone's values are
 DD> the same as yours.

     I somehow don't think that *MY* common sense idea is singular only
to me David.

 DD> --

 DD> regards

 DD> David

 DD> ---
 DD>  * Origin: GodZone (3:640/305)

Jeff

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