Text 15478, 142 rader
Skriven 2011-03-18 18:17:16 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 15468 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Leeching...
===================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Friday March 18 2011 at 11:09:

MV>>> So why do the Mexicans all go to the USA? Why do they not go to
MV>>> Europe wher the leeching is much better.

RB>> Because it's closer and it's easier to get into the system.

MV> Right. So there goes your "leeching" theory.

You wish. At least Mexicans aren't muslims, but mostly catholics. There may
come a time you wish all the immigrants to the EU (legal and illegal) were
catholics instead of muslims. Never has been a problem integrating catholics
here in Germany.

RB>> Unfortunately, they only say openly what the majority of the
RB>> population thinks.

MV> The majority? Are you sure?

If the many polls that have been carried out are any indication. The
politicians take them seriously, at any rate. And of course, there's the
success of Thio Sarracin's book "Deutschland schafft sich ab". That didn't
happen because people thought his theories so abstruse.

RB>> There's a _big_ difference in Germany. There's no problem integrating
RB>> people from the far east in Germany, although there are a lot of
RB>> Vietnamese who originally came to the GDR and are still in united
RB>> Germany. But except for their appearance, which they can't change,
RB>> they've integrated without difficulty. Not so the muslims.

MV> Give them more time.

Ten years? Twenty? Fifty? The Vietnamese needed around five years. But, of
course, their "beloved leader" wasn't invited to Germany to speak before a
massed group of his nationals (naturally _not_ naturalized or integrated), as
Erdogan was recently (for the _second_ time). I personally think the German
politicians who invited him are totally insane, but that's the point things
have come to.

Educated muslims are, as already mentioned, no problem. My son's dentist is a
Turk and as nice a guy as you could wish. An accident surgeon who has treated
me is Syrian, similarly a nice guy (for that matter, I don't even know if he's
muslim or not - plenty of christians in Syria). No idea whether either has been
nauralized, but both speak good German and are competent, so who cares?

But there are others - unfortunately a lot more - not so nice, you wouldn't
want to meet in a dark alley. And if you ever see a report of some street
violence in Germany, chances are a Turk, Lebanese or other muslim was involved
- and not as a victim.

Michiel, there _is_ a problem and most people here realize that, even if they
have no patent answers how to solve it. Denial won't help solve an obvious
problem - our politicians have done that for the last 20-30 years and the
situation is presently coming to a head, not only here but elsewhere in the EU,
as you well realize. Look at Denmark to see the direction things are taking.

RB>>>> To the problem you also have in the Netherlands,

MV>>> The problem exists only in the mind of the extremist like Geert
MV>>> Wilders.

RB>> And "extremists" in practically every other EU country presently
RB>> affected by non-integrated, non native-speaking, intentionally
RB>> optically distinct (burkah, headscarves) islamic "asylum seekers".

MV> How many burkas have you seen in the streets of datteln?

I wasn't aware that we were merely talking about Datteln.

MV> Our previous queen Juliana oiften wore a headscarve.

As did my mother, when it was windy or rained. But what does that have to do
with the subject? And for that matter, what European woman wears a scarf
nowadays? Even men, who used to wear hats all the time, only rarely wear them
nowadays. I'm old-fashioned and wear a cap to try to prevent head colds. But
look around and you'll see few others wearing any kind of head cover.

By the way, what you _will_ see in Datteln are muslim women with scarves and
long black coats that hide even their ankles even in midsummer. The amazing
thing is that these are usually younger women (judging by their faces, which at
least they don't hide). I try to ignore them, but as an American/German have to
laugh at the thought that every man alive has only sex on the brain and every
woman alive only wants to throw herself at the nearest human with a penis - but
that's what many muslims (the ones with such garb) apparently believe. I only
wonder why such muslims never have invented and used more effective chastity
belts than those some christians used in the middle ages*). And I wonder even
more why they're in Germany instead of Saudi Arabia, where they doubtless would
feel more at home.

RB>>>> - but we _are_ talking about uneducated laborers from rural
RB>>>> villages who neither speak nor understand the local language

MV>>> All that wears off in two, three generatiosn at most.

RB>> You hope.

MV> It is what history teaches us.

History? We're _living_ history, and it teaches us nothing of the kind.

RB>> There are enough examples of third-generation Turks in Germany still
RB>> unable to speak decent German, still living on welfare, to debate
RB>> that. Naturally that's not everyone, but such cases _do_ exist, and
RB>> not only a few. They're not merely my imagination.

MV> Same here. They are exceptions.

I'd like to believe that, but the facts speak against it. At least here in
Germany.

MV>>> In 1948 we had a large influx of Molukkans.

RB>> I can still remember the train bombings by the southern Moluccans in
RB>> the Netherlands.

MV> And now, with the next generation that problem has solved itself.

I'm sure that's a big comfort to the people killed in the train bombings and
their relatives.

MV>>> Why do they not come to Europe if the "leeching" is so much better
MV>>> here?

RB>> Are you kidding? The average Mexican peon doesn't even know where
RB>> Europe is - but he knows he has a brother in Los Angeles.

MV> And the brother in Los Angeles does not have a satellite TV that tells
MV> him the leeching is so much better in Europe?

So get there. Next question: how? You can't cross the Atlantic in a truck. And
even if you could, how could you be sure the conditions in the EU were SO much
better as to justify the risk and cost? It's hard enough, and expensive enough,
to get from Africa to Europe. You're grasping at straws.

Cheers, Bob

*) I recently read that the chastity belts of the middle ages were not imposed
on the women, but were intended to prevent sexual attack (rape), and that the
women generally had a key to open them.

--- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-0613
 * Origin: Jabberwocky System - 02363-56073 ISDN/V34 (2:2448/44)