Text 19380, 67 rader
Skriven 2011-05-26 10:42:15 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Get me a translator! (was: Another Euro in jail)
========================================================
Hello Robert,

On Thursday May 26 2011 08:23, you wrote to Björn Felten:

 MV>>> Not speaking French and never having been in France, you have no
 MV>>> idea. "Le Grande" does not exist in French.

 RB> Depends on the context, but "grande" is an adjective and is not
 RB> normally capitalized. Aside from which, it would have to be "la
 RB> grande" to fit the gender.

Exactly! While I realise that gender issues are difficult for someone who's
native language does not have them, at least not in practise, it IS imprinted
strongly when taking lessons and so this error says a lot.

Anyway, my main point was that literally translating word by word often puts
one on the wrong foot. You have to take the culture into account. While in
English "the great seducer" has a negative connotation, I maintain that the
French "le grand seducteur" does not. In France a successful womanizer is
admired the same way Americans look up to people who manage to make lots of
money.

 RB> At any rate, Michiel's native language is Dutch (or "Netherlandish" -
 RB> I don't want to be insulting) and yours, Bjorn, is Swedish. Neither
 RB> one of you has French as a first language and more than I do, or for
 RB> that matter any American.

That goes for everyone here. But some have more experience with other languages
than others.

 RB> The only one who has a legitimate right to speak about such things
 RB> here is Ward, who comes from a country where French definitely _is_
 RB> spoken.

Ward has no more authority with regard to the French language than I have. That
he lives in a country where French is one of the languages, is only true in
theory. I may as well claim authority because I live in an administrative
entity where French, German and Frisian  are official languages. That
administrative entity being The Benelelux. What matters is that I grew up and
live in a region where they speak Dutch and so does ward.

Ward's native language is Dutch, just like mine. Ward learned French in school,
by reading Dutch books and magazines, watching television and by visiting areas
where French is spoken. Same for me.

From the participants here, Ward and me are probably best known with French
culture. It is not as prominent as it was, but French culture had lots of
influence here. It was the first foreign language I learned in school. My first
French lessen was when I was 10 years old. English at 11 and German at 12.
There wre many French movies in the theatres and half The Netherlands went to
France in the holiday season. That has all changed, French culture has been
pushed to the background these days, but when I was young there was a LOT of
French culture to be tasted here.

To understand the language, you have to know the culture. I think I know the
French culture well enough to know that in France "le grand seducteur" is not
meant in a negative way.

 RB> All the rest of us are basing everything we write on dictionaries,
 RB> translators and learned languages.

Not "the rest of us", ALL of us. There are no native French speakers here.

Cheers, Michiel

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