Text 20058, 54 rader
Skriven 2011-06-22 17:15:46 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 20051 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Violent crime and (maybe) punishment (was: Mladic)
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Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday June 22 2011 at 10:11:

MV>>> So go back to the USA if you think it is so much better there.

RB>> I'm not a violent criminal, Michiel.

MV> Right. So for YOU the idea of a having your car impounded and your
MV> driver's license revoked will act as a deterrent for speeding.

I thought we were talking about _violent_ criminals.

RB>>> And I don't believe in coddling such people, as you apparently do.

RB>> Try reading what I write instead of interpreting something I don't
RB>> write into it.

Not sure about the two quotes above, as they were twisted around in your
original message. I've tried to clean them up and put them in order.

MV> I don't believe in coddling them either. But I also do not believe in
MV> victim driven punishment. Victims or their relatives are too much
MV> involved. Justice must be delivered by those not personally involved.

Right. Give the bastards a fair trial and _then_ hang them! ;-)

MV> Harsh penalties do not reduce crime. They just result in fuller
MV> prisons. As is demonstrated in California.

Not too certain about that. Just the other day I read (I believe on the BBS
website) about statistics showing that violent crime (murder, armed robbery)
had dropped quite sharply in the States since around 1975. There were various
possible explanations mentioned, among which were the peaking of the "criminal
age" (young men) in the "baby boomer" generation - but also the fact that
tolerance of violent crime ("Oh, he had such a _hard_ childhood!") had fallen
since that time.

One thing I'm certain of: "soft" penalties like those in Germany very
definitely do _not_ deter violent crime, as that appears to be on the rise
here. You aren't well advised to frequent bus or train stations late at night
anymore, particularly not in large cities, but even near where I am. People
have been beaten to the point they have permanent physical damage - and the
criminals either given short suspended sentences are simply released to their
parents without punishment except for an hour at the police station.

Oh, and as for California... the fact that the prisons there are overfilled has
something to do with the tight finances in the state - they just don't have
enough money to build proper prisons. It's not as simple as you think, just
putting too many people in prison. If they'd tear down old prisons and not
build new ones in the Netherlands, there'd be overcrowding there, too.

Cheers, Bob

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