Text 20847, 113 rader
Skriven 2011-07-15 07:42:34 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 20759 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Vicious comments
========================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Thursday July 14 2011 at 12:31:

MV> You don't call names and you did not start this. But you certainly
MV> help in keeping it going by zooming in on Björn and condemning him
MV> for everything he says that you do not like.

No, I call him out on vicious statements that are not only untrue, but are
insulting in the extreme. He appears to enjoy making them, but he doesn't enjoy
it in the least when some of the dirt flies back at him.

RB>> I also don't adhere to the doctrine of "the enemy of my enemy is my
RB>> friend".

MV> Neither do I.

Given some of your messages, that appears questionable to me. Here I'm thinking
of Lee in particular.

RB>> I'd appreciate it if you'd stop your present love affair with Bjorn
RB>> and get back to some worthwhile subject.

MV> But if you don't adhere to that doctrine, why do you project it on me?
MV> And why do you completely ignore the venom coming from Ross?

Because Ross is a) not anywhere near as vicious as Bjorn continues to be, b)
Ross is _reacting_ to long-term, and more important continuing venom, rather
than having started the affair himself, and c) because Bjorn styles himself as
the "moderator" here and, if he were really that, would _never_ write what he
does, inflaming instead of moderating the echo.

Ross may think that Bjorn "appointed" him Z1 "moderator", but as Bjorn isn't a
moderator himself, he can hardly "appoint" anyone else to the position. I see
Ross as a normal participant here, and Bjorn as a self-styled "moderator" who
simply isn't, first of all because he doesn't moderate and secondly because he
gives the worst possible example of bad behavior in an echo, not something
anyone else should follow.

You confuse action with reaction, and if your message base search system is so
good that you can immediately find an insulting message from Ross, just try it
out on Bjorn. You'll find that few messages are totally free of digs at the USA
or specific persons in some form, and often contain really vicious vitriol. I
personally wouldn't defend that, or associate myself with it.

MV> It would help your credibility if you would practise what you preach
MV> and really did look at it from both sides. You may have missed the
MV> bucket of venom that Ross poured over Lee.

Recently, and only _after_ Lee popped in to praise Bjorn's "noble" sentiments.
You still confuse action with reaction, and there's still a difference between
a normal participant and a _real_ moderator.

A _real_ moderator would, in the first place, never write as Bjorn does.
Secondly, he would never have given Lee cause to write such adulation. Thirdly,
given that situation, Ross would have had no reason to reply as he did.

An added factor, which you strangely overlook, it the fact that Lee has a
long-running battle with Ross and Janis, and has made no secret of that. It
would be strange if neither of those two reacted to negative comments by Lee.

MV> Lee may be a kook, but after reading the above, can you honestly say
MV> that response was justified?

It went pretty far out, but Lee provoked something like this and can hardly
complain. You much less, as it wasn't even directed at you.

MV> Do you honestly believe you can retain your credibility as a neutral
MV> observer if you keep on harping on Björn and ignore the venom coming
MV> from Ross?

I have no credibility with either you, Bjorn or hanger-on Lee, so the question
is baseless. Anyone who disagrees is the enemy, and it's my habit to disagree.
It's also my habit to distinguish between action and reaction. And here - now
I'm thinking of you - _not_ "reaction" months or even years after the "action".

MV>>> When was the last time you saw me write a personal insult?

RB>> You? Never. But nobody can consider you as an isolated case as long
RB>> as you throw in your lot with Bjorn. Ever heard of guilt by
RB>> association? It's not that rare.

MV> I do not "throw in my lot" with Björn.

That may be your feeling, but it sure doesn't look that way to me. I call out
Bjorn on some outrageous comment, he spews me with truly libellous venom and
you write nothing. But if Ross writes a heated message - not as far out as
Bjorn, but still heated - you start lambasting him at length, and me in the
process because I don't join in.

You may worry about _my_ credibility, I worry about yours.

MV> I am merely pointing out that your demonising does not help. Maybe it
MV> would be better if you put him in your twit filter and simply ignored
MV> Björn for a couple of month.

I think the echo would be better off if _everyone_ put him in their twit
filter. Unfortunately, if only one does that, you still get the venom as quotes
in other messages.

MV> And if you believe in guilt by association, you might want to consider
MV> how the relation between you and Ross and Roy looks like to the rest
MV> of the participants...

You mean to you, Bjorn and hanger-on Lee.

Sorry, but the rest is more of the same, and I get tired of repeating myself.

I called Bjorn a disaster for the echo and I stick to that. Agree to disagree,
or lambaste me as long as I stay in the echo, as you wish.

Cheers, Bob

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