Text 28732, 122 rader
Skriven 2012-05-17 09:13:33 av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
  Kommentar till text 28723 av Björn Felten (2:203/2)
Ärende: Fidonews v29 n18 run by me.
===================================
17 May 12 17:36, Björn Felten wrote to Roy Witt:


 RW>> And you're still wrong. Had I wanted to download the movie file that
 RW>> I saw a torrent for on TPB, all I had to do was update my
 RW>> bit-torrent software to include the 'magnet' protocol.

 BF>    And if you did, you still didn't download it from TPB.

I would have downloaded the torrent from TPB.se in any case.

 RW>> That isn't illegal...in fact there are stores all around this
 RW>> country where you can buy, sell or trade CDs and DVDs, even the
 RW>> older 78, 45, and 33rpm vinyl recordings, VCR and Beta tapes, 8
 RW>> track and cassette recordings, the list goes on and on...BTW,

 BF>    And this is perfectly OK with you?

I don't indulge, but yes, it seems to be legal, so I'm fine with it.

 BF>    Search Amazon for e.g. copies of one of the best movies I know of
 BF> -- "Pimpernel Smith" -- and you'll find not one single copy offered
 BF> by the copyright holder, but several dozens of copies made on VHS by
 BF> people who have recorded it from TV on VHS. All the copies range well
 BF> above $30 per (pirated) copy, and it's legal, yes?

No. It is legal to make one copy for your own personal use, but it isn't
legal to sell or trade it.

 BF>    But when I offer the same movie on TPB for free:

 BF> http://tinyurl.com/cca29mj

 BF>    ... it's a crime, because I "steal from the copyright holder".

Depends(tm) on whether you're making your 'copy' of it or the 'copy'
provided by the copyright holder...

 BF> The very same copyright holder that offers no "legal" alternative to
 BF> watching this movie at all, and therefore opens up for people to make
 BF> lots of money from selling pirated copies on Amazon -- quite legally.

Since Amazon offers it as a used tape and it comes in a box that has been
professionally printed with such information to indicate copyright
ownership and the fact that it was available for sale when VHS tapes were
offered for sale by the copyright owners, it is legal to resell.

 BF>    So, pray tell, who am I stealing from when I share this gem with a
 BF> handful of movie enthusiasts -- ATM it's about five people who share
 BF> this gem with me.

If you've made your own private copies and offer them for sale, then that
is a breach of copyright. Selling an original is not a breach.

 BF>    BTW, as you can see, you can actually download a torrent file from
 BF> there, TPB has only deleted torrent files with less than 10 seeds up
 BF> to now -- so you might say I wasn't totally truthful when I claimed
 BF> all torrent files have been deleted from TPB. 8-)

I always take your word for anything with a grain of salt, knowing how you
would like to be seen in the light as an 'honest' pirate. 8^)

I can look past the 'honest' part because no one actually is as honest as
they could be, but when I see pirate I associate that with thieves and
bank robbers.

Even the EU has drawn a line in the sand as far as piracy goes; look at
what the EU has done to date off the coast of Somalia...

 RW>> stealing just one of those items from the store is still illegal
 RW>> too, it's called theft.

 BF>    Of course it is. But if the store still has it's copy left, how
 BF> can it be theft if I manage to get a copy?

If you didn't pay them for their copy, how did you get a copy of it?

 BF> How do you prove "theft" of intellectual property?

Easily done with the proper equipment.

 BF> If I steal your car, if the car is found on my driveway, that's
 BF> fairly good proof. But how do you find that illusive "intellectual
 BF> property", and how do you get it back to the original owner?

How do they know your copy is a theft of IP? Have you not heard of
copy protection (can't copy it) or if you do get past the copy protection
(ripping) imbedded on the original, it won't appear on your copy, thus you
are found in possession of a pirated copy.

It is then incumbant upon you to prove that it isn't a pirated copy.

 BF>    Have you ever heard the legal term "corpus delicti" and the
 BF> associated term "larceny"?

See above. Finding evidence of theft (larceny?) in that situation is quite
easy.

 BF> Have you seen the very definitions of the two terms?

Do I need to see it again? No, I'm quite familiar with those terms.

 BF> Wikipedia is your friend here. Obviously a large number of US judges
 BF> and congressmen have totally missed out there -- as well as
 BF> a (shrinking, fortunately) number of US citizens who willingly
 BF> swallow the BS that the copyright industry is constantly feeding
 BF> them...

Citizens are less prone to thievery when they're confronted with large
monetary fines, jail sentences and a lifetime record as a thief...if you
think you can get away with copyright theft here, it isn't as cut and dry
as you think it is. Although many dumb fucks have tried.

                R\%/itt



... besides, IMNSHO, Ward Dossche should resign as ZC2 and surrender his
... net node-number to the ZCC !            - Cato the Elder -

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