Text 29687, 164 rader
Skriven 2012-06-15 18:41:45 av alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
  Kommentar till text 29648 av Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
Ärende: Napalm & Agent Orange
=============================
Hi, Ward Dossche! How are you?
on Friday, 15 of June, I read your message to alexander koryagin
about "Re: Napalm & Agent Orange"


 ak>> Yes, we probably is not better, but the bulk of corpses after WW2
 ak>> were on the count of the US/NATO.

 WD> NATO also cannot be accused of occupying like a dozen countries or
 WD> so for around 50 years and virtually impose a continuous martial
 WD> law.

Occupation? Well, Soviet occupation was a almost always hidden occupation. Like
the US, for instance occupies Japan, Germany having there a lot of troops. Of
course, in all cases local governments approved such an occupation as things
that were necessary for the prosperity of their countries.

 WD> The football riots in Poland the day before yesterday were greatly
 WD> due to Russia's occupation of Poland. It'll take some generations
 WD> to get over it.

If you tell of the 1940 pact, you are wrong. The USSR did not occupy Poland --
Stalin just returned some Ukrainian and Belarusan lands that had been
shamelessly captured by Poland in 1918. But anyway, I agree it is quite
offensive for the Poles who like to remember their rather aggressive past and
great ancient kingdom.

 WD> Also NATO nor the US ever rolled its tanks nor marched its troops
 WD> in to suffocate a freedom-desiring population like happened in
 WD> East-Germany in the late 40-ies, Hungary in 1956, Tsjecho-Slovakia
 WD> 1968, Poland somewhere in the 70-ies...

As for me I'd prefer to count corpses. The US/NATO cannot be outstripped in the
business of making millions of corpses around the world. ;=)

 WD> I was in Prague in 1991 (I think it was) the day the last Russian
 WD> soldier left (a general) from the occupation that started in 1968.
 WD> There was a spontaneous unplanned fiesta that broke-out and we were
 WD> taken everywhere to celebrate with the people.

Well, it is everything velvet in Czechoslovakia. Even revolt suppressions. ;)
IMHO it was practically a bloodless affair, although not democratic.

 WD> Budapest is a nice holiday vacation site now, but if you know where
 WD> to go you still see the battle scars where Russians fought against
 WD> the general population.

Budapest is a nice site now, but Hungary was the first ally of Hitler in
Europe. The cruelty of this people in 1956 exceeded all the limits. IMHO no
people deserve freedom when they act like that, hanging their opponents on lamp
posts.

 ak>> They killed millions and still believe that in Vietnam they
 ak>> promoted democracy.

 WD> I don't think democracy was ever an issue. In the beginning the
 WD> regime they supported was the one headed by Ngo Dinh Diem, he was a
 WD> bloody dictator and nepotist by any definition in the book, and
 WD> after his murder in 1963 (set up by the CIA) was replaced by a
 WD> string of generals who didn't promote democracy either. Is there
 WD> any proof of any decent elections during the time-frame of American
 WD> presence in Vietnam?

 WD> Your remarks raise the question how well you are aware from
 WD> Russia's occupation of Afghanistan? Sources mention 300.000 Afghans
 WD> killed during that time-period and close to 100.000 Russians. The
 WD> Afghan army (and the Taliban rebels) still use Russian military
 WD> weaponry left behind from that era.

You have bad sources. The number of the USSR soldiers killed during 1979-1989
war was 14427. It was a secret then, but not now. I think your number of
Afghans killed in that war has the same accuracy.

As for the fact that the Talibs have Russian weapon it is no wonder. We
supported the regime that was until the Talibs came to power. Now you are
fighting with the Talibs. ;-)

[Skipped]
 ak>> It is a perfect example of the phrase "the road to Hell is paved
 ak>> with good intentions." When America wants to help, it means the
 ak>> score of victims will be 10 and even 100 time higher that it would
 ak>> be without American help. ;-\

 WD> That's propaganda.

 WD> I can lead you to American (and British, and French) military
 WD> cemetaries here full of ordinary young men who hadn't much of an
 WD> option other than to serve. They helped liberate my parents from
 WD> Nazi rule and prevented Russian from being a mandatory language
 WD> course at school when I was young.

That's propaganda, too. ;)

 ak>> believe that the Syrian violence is the direct consequence of the
 ak>> recent US/NATO invasion in Libya. One bloody crime always causes
 ak>> another.

 WD> It's at least an interesting take you have on current world events.

 WD> Is that what the news media in Russia make of it? You are aware, I
 WD> hope, that no ground invasion in Libya took place and only
 WD> strategic bombings (no Americans)? I hope you are aware this was
 WD> under a mandate by the UN Security Council and that if it were as
 WD> you say, Russia could have simply blocked it with a veto?

It's not true. First, the US military participated. Second, the only mandate
NATO had there was to provide a non-fly zone over Libya. But after all the
Libyan aviation was destroyed, NATO mercilessly continued bombing the Libyan
sites and cities. NATO aviation hovered in the air, destroying everything that
was moving, killing thousands of people, whose all the guilt was serving their
country.

 WD> What happened in Libya, meaning the downfall of the Khadaffi
 WD> regime, was a direct consequence of serious political changes in
 WD> "all" North Afriocan countries (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt)
 WD> where all traditional rulers were removed from office (or had to
 WD> run). It was just Lybia that was left and no decent political
 WD> commentator will subscribe to the theory it was a US/NATO based
 WD> conspiracy that toppled Khadaffi. The people realized they could
 WD> initiate change, and they did.

Libya was the only place with big oil reserves. That's the reason. Why should
Libya have a strong leader, while it can have none? ;-)

 WD> In Syria the people of the League of Arab Countries came to the
 WD> conclusion that Asad is a tyrant with blood on his hands, we've had
 WD> our own news crews there (not CNN or whatever, but 100% Belgian)
 WD> and they confirm Asad is a bloody tyrant, the UN observer taskforce
 WD> has been rendered helpless, Kofi Annan (for whom I did some work)
 WD> being the world's ultimate diplomat was unable to achieve anything.

What's going now in Syria is a civil war that can't be without victims. But
there is no doubt that the situation in Syria have been artificially shaken up
and inflamed. Syria was one of the most democratic Arab nations. At least 100
times more democratic than Saudi Arabia with its medieval laws.

 WD> Asad is killing thousands and thousands waging a war against his
 WD> own population... and you expect the world to sit down and watch
 WD> while it happens like a horror show?

Well, when Georgia had shelled the South Osetia, the Sovern Ocetians told the
media about 2000 people killed. Who did believe them? Who wanted to. The
Western mass media pays too high attention to allege statements and amateur
video clips. Such videos are not a proof. If you a good film director you can
shoot a film "Falling of Berlin in 1945" shooting it in 1980.

 WD> But the take is indeed interesting to see how a news situation can
 WD> be poluted to cover-up the sending of Russian attack helicopters to
 WD> Asad so he can kill some more civilians.

Mrs. Clinton, probably, reads some grandladies chatrooms. They say grandladies
know everything. But even Penetta told that there is no such information.

[Skipped]
Sorry for skipping too often, but your message was too long.

[...He had three sons: two clever guys and a footballer]
Bye Ward!
Alexander (yAlexKo[]yandex.ru) + 2:5020/2140.91
fido7.fidonews 2012 


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