Text 5262, 123 rader
Skriven 2010-02-25 06:38:04 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
   Kommentar till text 5222 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: The Dubai Connection
============================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday February 24 2010 at
13:21:

MV> If the MOSSAD decides to label you a terrorist, there is nothing you
MV> can do about it.

;-) Depends on what I do.

MV> On further reflecteion I suspect that is precisely what happened.
MV> Israel has a history of eliminating Palestinian leaders.

Don't worry about facts or proof - _you_ "know"! So now what exactly do you
think separates our thinking? Seems to me like you jump over to my side
everytime it suits you, meanwhile claiming that only I make unreasonable
assumptions without proof.

RB>> You really should read what I write. OK, I'll emphasize it:
RB>> SPECIFICALLY ELIMINATE. Did that get through?

MV> I wonder why you make that articificial distinction. Three minivans
MV> with taliban warriors were specifically targetted.

The vans. Not the persons.

And as for "artificial" distinctions, I seem to remember that you were one of
the people making a very artificial distinction between murder and manslaughter
not too many months ago, and I was one of those pointing out that the victim
was dead regardless of what judicial distinctions might exist.

Now I see you've jumped over the fence. Has your attitude toward murder
changed, too? Or only murder when it's carried out by specific groups?

RB>> And the chance of that happening to me - or to you - are as close to
RB>> zero as you can get without actully being zero.

MV> Tell that to the fotographer who died on the Rainbow warrior.

He was NOT specifically targeted. The ship was. To repeat myself still again,
he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Such things unfortunately happen.

MV> I do not condone murder. But I say the court room is the place to
MV> determine guilt or innocence. Not the office of the head of the MOSAD.
MV> And if/when found guilty it is for the court to set the sentence.

For normal criminals in normal societies a practical way of doing things. For
crimes in chaotic, lawless societies - and the Palastinian areas of Israel can
certainly claim that distinction, in particular Gaza - a pretty illusion.

How about catching and trying the people who kidnapped the Israeli soldier
several years ago - and who still hasn't been released despite many claims and
promises to do so?

Forget it - it won't happen. Although I'd like to see you in Gaza, trying to
secure his release and promising a "fair trial" to the kidnappers. They
probably wouldn't even kill you, they'd be laughing too hard.

MV>>> First of all, I would like to know what he has actually done to be
MV>>> labelled a terrorist. The mere fact that he was a member of Hamas is
MV>>> not enough for me.

RB>> "Member"? You should read a bit to find out who this guy really was.

MV> Your opinion on what he as is irrelevant. What he was is for the
MV> courts to decide, not you or the MOSSAD.

I'm not talking about _my_ opinion, Michiel. You aren't so obtuse that you
disbelieve _anything_ that's reported unless Hamas itself confesses, are you?

RB>> He surely loved his family and his dog.

MV> Your emotions are getting the better of you.

As yours have long since. This whole discussion has nothing to do with reality,
and I'm getting tired trying to explain the obvious to you.

RB>> Was that the subject here?

MV> Hit squads eliminating people that are in someone's way.

No, hit sqads eliminativg _specific_ people for a specific reason. Not attacks
on an object in which people who weren't specifically targeted are hurt or
killed.

MV>>> If you condone killing people form the other side by hit squads,
MV>>> don't be surprised if the other side does it to your side too.

RB>> Are you so certain that they don't?

MV> Whsat comes to mind is that Russion spy who was poisoned with radio
MV> active material and who died in a London hospital. I suppose you
MV> consider that all right too then?

That was indeed a specific assassination, as was the previous one in London of
a Bulgarian (who was poisoned with ricin using a pointed umbrella). At least
you didn't cite something general this time.

As for my attitude, I'd just like to note that I think there's a difference
between political assassinations as these appear to be and elimination of a
known terrorist attempting to obtain weapons for further acts of terrorism.

MV> Related is the case of Salmon Rusdie. Declared an outlaw for rwriting
MV> the wrong things.

And not really pertinent here, as the man isn't a terrorist nor has he ever
murdered anyone. To the contrary, the religious zelots who go after such people
- remember the one who tried to kill the Mohammed cartoonist in Denmark
recently? - are themselves terrorists. If you want to try anyone, you'd be
better off trying them than the people fighting them. Although most of them
won't be impressed by the slap on the hand they get from our western courts -
they're more used to the kind of "justice" they deal out themselves.

RB>> P.S. I sometimes stand in wonder of your naivete, but maybe you
RB>> haven't had the experience I once had...

MV> I had the experience of seeing the iron curtain fall...

Thanks for confirming what I already strongly suspected. You've led a very
sheltered life.

Cheers, Bob

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