Text 10375, 212 rader
Skriven 2013-09-23 14:37:54 av alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
  Kommentar till text 10285 av Ward Dossche (2:292/854)
Ärende: Re: Putin Blinks
========================
Hi, Ward Dossche!
I read your message from  20.09.2013 12:00
about Re: Putin Blinks.

  ak>> I believe that this war crime (a mass and indiscriminate killing
  ak>> of civilians is a very severe war crime) was a demonstration of
  ak>> force to the USSR. In June 1945, at Potsdam Conference, Truman
  ak>> boasted of the Abomb before Stalin, but he appeared unimpressed.

  WD> I follow you on the war crime associated with the atomic bombings.
  WD> Also the carpet bombings of German cities like Dresden. The
  WD> difference is that the victors write the history books...

    I think Dresden is a big difference. Every time when of an Allies' 
air raid took place the German air defense system rose an alarm and 
civilian people hid themselves in bomb shelters. So, probably, we can 
speak about a cultural disaster for the Germans (their ancient city had 
been destroyed) rather than of a war crime against civilians.

  WD> Although in Japan the events of Pearl Harbor are not part of their
  WD> history. I've had a good Japanese friend who passed away in the
  WD> meantime but when I met him in 1973 he was 25 and completely
  WD> unaware there had been a Japanese surprise attack in 1941. When I
  WD> visited Hawaii for the first time in 1995 and went to the
  WD> Battleship USS Arizona Memorial there were large groups of Japanese
  WD> tourists that came to have a look at the wreck of the big ship that
  WD> exploded there but had no clue Japan did it... until they watched
  WD> the mandatory movie prior to being ferried to the memorial that is.

    Anyway, the Japanese attack on American warships in Perl Harbor 
hardly can serve as an excuse for wiping out two Japanese cities. This 
act was in the spirit of Hitler.

  WD> Also, Truman was completely unprepared for the Presidency. He had
  WD> not been at Yalta, had not been in on any of the negotiations, was
  WD> completely in the dark about the atom-bomb development and had to
  WD> learn everything about international politics while he was already
  WD> president. Stalin was better informed about the US's nuclear
  WD> programme than their president was.

But Truman was well aware of the damage caused by the first bomb. It 
didn't prevent him from dropping the second bomb in several days after 
the first one.

  ak>> At Yalta conference, in 1945 (Stalin, Roosevelt, Churchill), the
  ak>> USSR had taken an obligation to declare war on Japan, to help the
  ak>> US to defeat Japan. That was an agreement, that was a part of
  ak>> allies military actions. So, it must not be any wonder why the
  ak>> USSR declared war on Japan in 1945.
  WD> Indeed. That is historical verifiable fact.

  ak>> According to Yalta conference the USSR got Kurile and Sakhalin
  ak>> islands as a war reparation. BTW, Germany had also lost big
  ak>> territory, at this conference.

  WD> Yes, but the odd thing is that the loss was in both cases to the
  WD> USSR or its cronies... not to the USA, Britain, France, the
  WD> Netherlands,... Only the USSR "took" actual land... I think.

    But after the first world war, Germany had been eaten (in Versal) by 
Denmark, Poland, Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, France and Belgium. Russia 
in 1919 had been in Civil war and didn't participate in the division, 
although it also had fought with Germany in WW1 and had heavy losses.

  ak>> Actually, Japan and Germany were one team and had to be treated
  ak>> equally. But there was a peculiar specific - the Japanese treated
  ak>> their emperor as a god, and he could be hanged as were hanged
  ak>> German war criminals. Although, the Japanese emperor was not
  ak>> better than Hitler.

  WD> He could have been hanged, but it was a political decision not to.
  WD> Other than that, I think in Germany the evil was top-down, while in
  WD> Japan it was bottom-up... the emperror didn't start war based on
  WD> crazy ideologies, as a matter of fact I think he didn't start
  WD> anything, just condoned it.

    IMHO in Japan there was the cult of supremacy of Japanese nation, 
similar to German nazism. For instance, they didn't treat Chinese, 
Koreans as equal people. I believe that an emperor was not the last man 
in making such a doctrine, and probably he was its face. Exactly because 
of this doctrine the Japanese had committed many atrocities at the 
occupied lands, especially in Chine and Korea.

  ak>> If it was a provocation it was well planned. There were used two
  ak>> small rockets and at least one Russian made shell. But, that
  ak>> rocket-shell was from a multiple rocket launcher (which produces
  ak>> 16 shells per volley) and it is very strange that the shell was
  ak>> fired alone from such a big launcher as BM-14. More likely, it was
  ak>> launched from a small, handicraft hand launcher, as it often is
  ak>> being done in Gaza strip. You can crawl up secretly, actually to
  ak>> any place, and make a shot.

  WD> What you're saying is actually that you haven't got a clue either,
  WD> but you're buying the propaganda that tries to minimize the Russian
  WD> culpability.

    Nobody thinks of an American guilt when somewhere people are killed 
by American weapon. So why Russia should feel itself guilty? Especially, 
taking into account that "evidences" against Assad's using chemical 
weapon are flimsy.

  WD> Syria's civil war would've ended long ago if "no-one" would've been
  WD> involved from the outside, without Russian made weapons and
  WD> airplanes and helicopters Assad couldn't terrorize its people and
  WD> he would've been a goner long ago.

    Russian weapon is not the key. Instead of Russian weapon there could 
have been American, Chinese or Indian one. NATO's invasion in Libya -- 
that has been the trigger for Syrian civil war.

  WD> This is just a game of geo-politics where Russia tries to play a
  WD> controlling role as they've got very few political partnerships
  WD> outside of their own country which haven't been bought with weapons
  WD> or extorded by natural gas shipments.

    Any country is looking for allies. As for Assad it had become 
demonized only just a few years ago. Until recently, Syria had looked a 
democratic and civilized country. At least, if we compare with Gulf's 
monarchies.

  WD> Have you never noticed that whenever there's a violent uprising and
  WD> fighting goes on, the streets are full of AK47s? Never American
  WD> M16s? Or Belgian FALs? There's a lesson to be learned there...

    Well, it means nothing. Many nations had been close to the USSR and 
bought things there. Besides, people bought AK47 because they thought it 
was the best and most reliable.

  WD> Even the Sicilian Maffia has qualitity controls... they stay away
  WD> from Russian weapons. :-)

    Probably, western rifles could be obtain by Mafia easer than Russian 
AK47. ;=) Besides, mafia didn't have a partnership agreement with the 
USSR. :)

  ak>> Pay also attention - there were no casualties among the rebels
  ak>> themselves, all the victims were civilians. It's strange, isn't?
  WD> The rebels "are" civilians, there's no way you would know. Rebels
  WD> aka freedom fighters do not wear uniforms.

    There is something wrong with your definition of the word "civilians."

  ak>> The damaged Japanese atomic reactors are now leaking its
  ak>> radioactive materials into the surrounding environment, poisoning
  ak>> it.

  WD> They're not leaking "radio-active materials" but radio-active
  WD> cooling-water. That in itself is an interesting problem... they
  WD> can't keep storing the cooling water forever in an ever-expanding
  WD> field of holding tanks.

    That radio-active water is a mixture of radio-active materials with 
an ocean water. Nobody is anxious about water leaking, but everybody are 
anxious about leaking radio-active materials (together with the water).

    BTW -- if you evaporated water you would get hard radio-active 
materials. So, may be it is a good idea to make a big evaporating plant 
in Fucusima to get radioactive leavings out of water and store it, 
instead of storing tons of contaminated water.

  ak>> So, it is not the matter of Palestine and Israel -- it is the
  ak>> matter for all the world to solve the problem.

  WD> Funny... when it concerns Israel and Palestine the whole world
  WD> needs to solve the problem.

    Because of this problem the world has become a madhouse.

  WD> When it concerns Syria the whole world needs to stay away from the
  WD> problem? Geo-political control my friend.

    AFAIK, Russia doesn't mind to the world interference into Syrian 
war. But this interference must not be a cutting-throats-of-one-side 
solution. While the rebels are waiting for NATO's bombing they will 
never sit at the negotiation table.

  ak>> As far as I know, Jerusalem should have remained in the Arab part
  ak>> of Palestine. No further discussions were supposed.

  WD> Jerusalem "was" in the Arab part of Palestine when the borders were
  WD> drawn. Then those stupid Arabs decided to attack Israel multiple
  WD> times, got their collective asses whipped, lost a whole lot of
  WD> territory (including Jerusalem) and effectively closed the Suez
  WD> canal for a very long period.

  WD> Losing Jerusalem was the Arabs own doing, that cannot be blamed on
  WD> anyone else. But probably your propaganda has a different view on
  WD> that.

    Israel considers that this problem in the past, but the problem is 
in the present, and it inflames the world more and more, with every year 
passing. Exactly because of this unsolved problem people on earth have 
lost their freedom and safety. When you take off your pants in the 
airport and are searched you probably understand how disgusting the 
world has become for just the last ten years.

  WD> I was 16 during the 1967 "6 day war" in a school with a lot of
  WD> Jewish kids, barely 22 years after the Holocaust, a generation
  WD> sprug of the Holocaust survivors and who had heard all the tales
  WD> first hand.

    In the Russian media I heard of "preventive aggression" by Israel. 
Is it wrong? Whatever I had heard from our propaganda, I know that when 
troops stay along the border it is not an act of aggression, but the 
aggressor is the one who attacks first. IMHO, such a definition of 
aggression has always been and always will be.

Bye, Ward!
Alexander Koryagin
fido7.fidonews 2013
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