Text 10456, 119 rader
Skriven 2013-09-25 15:32:31 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.0)
  Kommentar till text 10446 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: IPv4 and IPv6
=====================
 On Wed, 25 Sep 2013, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to mark lewis:

 MvdV>> Your examples for your POTS mailer had merits in the past when 
 MvdV>> most traffic was via POTS. They still may have in your 
 MvdV>> particular setup.

 ml> they definitely do...

 MvdV> I have completely disabled automatic calling out in my POTS 
 MvdV> mailer. On the very rare occasion that I need/want to make an 
 MvdV> outgoing POTS call, I start it manually. That was easier than 
 MvdV> filtering all the rubbish in the nodelist that could make it 
 MvdV> automatically call unreachable nodes. Here POTS is a relic from 
 MvdV> the past...

i'm sorry that your chosen mailer did not keep up with the capabilities that
were being developed back then... mine did up until a certain point in time and
those capabilities are still extremely useful and are used on a daily basis for
my connections with other systems and theirs to my system...

 MvdV>> But for Fido over IP?

 ml> because, for instance, i don't want or need my "IP mailer" trying 
 ml> to connect to eg: IBN nodes since it cannot speak binkp at all...

 MvdV> Wait a minute... we we talking IPv6/IPv4 SPECIFIC flags, not IP
 MvdV> flags in general...

same difference... my mailer uses IBN, IFC and similar to prevent outbound
calls... if a system also has ITN or IVM, then it will call them... there is no
need for my system to attempt to try to connect with an IPv6 only system since
they cannot talk to each other at all...

 MvdV>> There are two sysops here that actually have Fdionet over IPv6
 MvdV>> capability. Those two represent about one third of the IPv6
 MvdV>> capable Fidonet sysops. They are the ones that have hands on
 MvdV>> experience with Fido over IPv6. And they say they don't need IP
 MvdV>> version specific nodelist flags.

 ml> they are looking only at themselves, then... those flags work both
 ml> ways ;)

 MvdV> Since you do not have IPv6, and they have IPv4, you have no need
 MvdV> to know that they are also IPv6 capable. And that goes for
 MvdV> everyone who is IPv4 only. The IPv4 only don't need it. The dual
 MvdV> stack guys do not need it. Nobody needs it. 

not yet they don't but it will come... just like the ISDN flags were used to
prevent POTS systems from trying to connect with ISDN systems... especially
ISDN only systems... please remember the reasoning for having these flags and
being able to use them for restricting outbound calls... while you are at it,
let's also not forget that not every system is the same or has all of the same
capabilities ;)

 MvdV>> You OTOH do not have it, so you have no experience, but you
 MvdV>> nevertheless say there is a need.

 ml> i don't need experience with IPv6 to know that none of my systems can
 ml> connect to an IPv6 only system...

 MvdV> There are no IPv6 only Fidonet systems.

there will be... you can count on it...

 MvdV>> Sorry, you often have good points, but in this case you seem to
 MvdV>> be the back seat driver...

 ml> perhaps but then again, i'm on the other side of the fence and not
 ml> being led... why is it that so many think only of their side without
 ml> seeing others side? they may not need an IPv6 flag but others can use
 ml> that flag to control their system's connections as noted above...

 MvdV> You are trying to cross a bridge that is still beyond the
 MvdV> horizon... 

sorry but it is not... it is on my horizon and has been for a few years...

 ml> especially those people who are connected via metering service
 ml> providers...

 MvdV> Those should not run servers as they have no control over the
 MvdV> traffic... 

right... tell that to all the ones that DO run servers on metered services...
have you never tried to connect to a web server and been met with a message to
the effect of "this server has exceeded its monthly traffic allotment"?? i
have... many times...

 ml> we've already seen what happens when ones alloted monthly connection
 ml> traffic is consumed by others... it is one reason why we have no more
 ml> nodes listed in Africa and why that zone no longer exists :/

 MvdV> Nonsense.

no, it is not...

 MvdV> The main reason Zone 5 never came off the ground properly and 
 MvdV> therefore dropped below critical mass rather soon, is Henk 
 MvdV> Wolsink. He wanted Fidonet Zone 5 to be a "whites only" network.

 MvdV> I have lived in RSA, I know what these "whites only" signs do to
 MvdV> society... :-( 

that is no where near the point i was making and has absolutely nothing to do
with it... i was speaking directly of russel tiedt's connectivity to the
international world... it was limited to a monthly quota and when it ran out
(mostly due to his children pulling traffic over it instead of using their
internal to africa only connection) then no one outside of africa could contact
his system and he could not contact anyone outside of africa... this happened
numerous times... i know specifically because i had mail waiting for his system
to come and pick up numerous times as well as our conversations being cut short
until the beginning of the next month when the quota count was reset... i was
even working with him with the firewall software i support so that it would be
able to handle routing to both connections so that his children would not cause
his quota to run out like it did...

)\/(ark

 * Origin:  (1:3634/12)