Text 17157, 231 rader
Skriven 2014-07-28 01:17:15 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
Kommentar till text 17090 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Citizenship
===================
Hello David,
DD>>>>> I am not a citizen of Australia, I do not have voting rights
DD>>>>> here. I do have the right to pay taxes here however.
LL>>>> What is a citizen?
DD>>> A person with some sort of documentary evidence that they belong in a
DD>>> particular nation, and that nation accepts them as one of its own
DD>>> (will issue them a passport).
LL>> IOW, by your definition, citizens have certain rights that non-citizens
LL>> do not.
DD> Yes.
Who gets to determine who is, and who is not, a citizen?
Who gets to decide who gets what rights, and who does not?
Do all citizens have equal rights?
Or do some citizens have more rights than others?
What about children? And prisoners? Do they have
the same rights as other citizens? And lets not
forget about patients in mental institutions ...
LL>> But only those rights that a particular government decides to
LL>> confer upon that individual(s). By that logic, what the lord giveth,
LL>> the lord can taketh away. As such, no individuals have any rights.
LL>> And citizens is just an empty word with no real meaning.
DD> Just as the word "rights" - there are no rights, just privileges granted
by
DD> the regime of the day.
Thomas Jefferson spoke (and wrote) quite eloquently about inalienable
rights that are bestowed upon us by our Creator. And yet he owned many
slaves, including one in particular whom he loved so very much that he
granted her the privilege of raising his child ...
LL>>>> If not a citizen of Australia, then a citizen of what?
DD>>> I am a permanent resident in Australia, I hold New Zealand
DD>>> citizenship (so it says on my passport).
LL>> Oh, come now! Something given has no value! Haven't I tought you
LL>> dimwits anything? Sheesh! I guess they ought to revoke my teaching
LL>> credential ...
DD> My passport is required for me to travel internationally, countries I
visit
DD> what to no where to deport e to if I misbehave.
I thought those who misbehaved bad enough were granted a much longer
stay, with free room and board ...
The issuance of passports is a relative new thing. In the past, folks
would simply move to wherever they wanted to go without having to bother
with such papers.
LL>> Do you vote? Even if you choose not to vote, you have the right to
LL>> vote.
DD> I have no voting rights in AUsralia, only citizens do. I do not vote in
NZ,
DD> after 34 years away from there I care not about their politics.
You must be a peacenik. :)
LL>> At least in NZ, which has chosen to grant you citizenship (how
LL>> very nice of them).
DD> They grant citizenship to every born there of NZ parents (and probably
DD> others).
Maori were in NZ before there was a NZ. As such, why would Maori
care about NZ citizenship? Maori never needed it before. Nor did
Maori ask for it to be bestowed upon them.
LL>> When you vote, you are using force. And force
LL>> is violence. Violence is, of course, the Supreme Authority from
LL>> which all good things (other authority devices) come from.
DD> If/when I vote I force the pencil to make a mark on the paper, other than
DD> that I am expressing an opinion about who I would like to re[present me in
DD> parliament. Of course once they are in there they care not about what I
DD> think.
Man lives in community. Voting is a means in which members of that
community can express their own authority in matters of importance.
The option not to vote is also a means in which members can express
their own authority.
Apathy is a form of political stability. The more people choose
not to vote, the happier they are with the way things are.
LL>> Now it may be that you are a holy man, like Jesus, and have chosen
LL>> the path of non-violence. In which case you gave up the right to vote
LL>> long ago ...
DD> 34 years ago - about as long as JC was on earth.
Jesus lived to the ripe old age of 108 after traveling to Japan,
where he and his woman are buried on holy ground.
DD>>> One cannot be a citizen of the world (yet, there is no one world
LL>> government or nation)
LL>> There is the New World Order. Does that count?
DD> There is a World Disorder!
It sometimes seems that way.
DD>>> Is there such a thing as a stateless citizen?
LL>> Ask the Palestinians who have no home.
DD> They do - it's just being eroded by the Israelis.
At the rate Palestinian women make babies a two-state solution
for Palestine will soon no longer be an option. If the Jewish
people want Israel to be able to retain its Jewish character,
they had better make amends with their Arab brethren before
they get themselves totally outnumbered by Arab Israelis.
Imagine what would happen when there are more Arab Israelis
than Jewish Israelis in Israel. Arab Israelis would have
majority control of the Knesset, have an Arab Israeli Prime
Minister, and an Arab Israeli President. The very first
act of such an Israeli government would be to change the
name of their political state from Israel to Palestine.
And then the newly-named state of Palestine would annex
the Gaza Strip and West Bank, thus creating Greater
Palestine. With Jerusalem as its capital.
All this, without firing a shot or launching a missile. ;)
LL>>>> Cajuns were exiled from their home and never allowed to return.
LL>>>> To this very day, the King/Queen of England has never apologized,
LL>>>> even though the Cajun people had done no wrong or committed any
LL>>>> crime or act of treason.
DD>>> Why were they exiled? <Mr Google says: Canada> Were you personally
DD>>> exiled or were you born in Louisiana?
LL>> Cajuns were exiled because they spoke French rather than the King's
LL>> English. And for that, Cajuns have never been forgiven ...
DD> Obviously the King got over that - there are French speaking people in the
DD> Arcadians today.
The Quebe‡ois are some of our dearest friends. :)
LL>> Technically, we remain under indictment and are not allowed to return.
DD> Has anyone tested that?
Yes, but only within the past ten years or so. A fellow from
South Louisiana was doing some legal research on the subject and
started writing some enquiries. He was not expecting any kind
of a response, but it somehow went up the chain to the point
that Queen Elizabeth II got involved. But she could not bring
herself to actually admit that England had done any wrong.
LL>> But Canadians (especially French-speaking Canadians) gladly welcome
LL>> Cajun tourists ...
DD> Canadians aren't bad people in the long run.
I love Canadians! Especially those in Montreal! The wine!
The women! The song! What sweet memories ...
DD>>> It gives people something to fight about and gives some a feeling of
DD>>> superiority when they real feel inferior.
LL>> Even St. Paul fought hard to keep his Roman citizenship.
LL>> And the Roman courts ruled in his favor, which is why he was
LL>> beheaded. St. Peter tried to go that route, but lost his case
LL>> and the Romans crucified him. Not like Jesus, but upside down.
LL>> That really had to hurt.
DD> Was he beheaded before or after they hung him up?
Hard to say, as nobody bothered writing down the specifics.
LL>>>>>> I have lived permanently in this country my entire life.
LL>>>>>> I am not American.
DD>>>>> Do you have voting rights in USA? Wouldn't that make you a
DD>>> USAmerican by
DD>>>>> nationality?
LL>>>> I am Cajun. Cajuns were here first, before Americans arrived to
LL>> claim
LL>>>> this land as their own.
DD>>> The Americans were there before you, but they called themselves
DD>>> other names (Apache etc.) The people you refer to were renegade Brits
DD> and other
DD>>> Europeans.
LL>> The indigenous people in the area were kind enough to allow us to
DD> live
LL>> in the Swamp. The Swamp (The Atchafalaya Basin) is the largest swamp
DD> in
LL>> North America. Not even renegade Brits and other Europeans wanted to
LL>> travel in those parts, much less live there.
DD>>>>> The fact that you live in the Americas makes you an American.
LL>>>> I am Cajun. Not American or Cajun American. I may be a citizen
LL>>>> of the United States due to the nature of my birth and the
LL>> generosity
LL>>>> of my benefactors, but that does not mean I am American.
DD>>> Americans live in the America's - you are an American by way of
LL>> regional
DD>>> placement, a Cajun by ethnicity.
LL>> It was not until the 1980s that the US government officially recognized
LL>> Cajuns as an ethnic group. When I fill out the form for the census I
LL>> enter "Cajun" in the race category rather than White or Black etc.
DD> Pure wank - you are no more of one race than I am.
Au contraire. We are all mutts. All the pure breeds have been
bred out of extinction.
--Lee
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* Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)
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