Text 17198, 131 rader
Skriven 2014-07-29 07:42:17 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
  Kommentar till text 17157 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
Ärende: Citizenship
===================
On 28/07/2014 9:17 AM, Lee Lofaso -> David Drummond wrote:

 LL>>> IOW, by your definition, citizens have certain rights that non-citizens
 LL>>> do not.

 DD>> Yes.

 LL> Who gets to determine who is, and who is not, a citizen?

The regime of the day

 LL> Who gets to decide who gets what rights, and who does not?

The regime of the day decides what privileges the citizens get

 LL> Do all citizens have equal rights?

There are no rights, only privileges.

 LL> Or do some citizens have more rights than others?

Some have more privileges thatn others.

 LL> What about children?  And prisoners?  Do they have
 LL> the same rights as other citizens?  And lets not
 LL> forget about patients in mental institutions ...

Not usually - all "men" are NOT euqal.
[...]

 LL> Thomas Jefferson spoke (and wrote) quite eloquently about inalienable
 LL> rights that are bestowed upon us by our Creator.  And yet he owned many
 LL> slaves, including one in particular whom he loved so very much that he
 LL> granted her the privilege of raising his child ...

Thoma Jefferson was not all powerful - he was just amember of the "regime of
the day". His influence is gone now.

 LL>>>>> If not a citizen of Australia, then a citizen of what?

 DD>>>> I am a permanent resident in Australia, I hold New Zealand
 DD>>>> citizenship (so it says on my passport).

 LL>>> Oh, come now!  Something given has no value!  Haven't I tought you
 LL>>> dimwits anything?  Sheesh!  I guess they ought to revoke my teaching
 LL>>> credential ...

 DD>> My passport is required for me to travel internationally, countries I
visit
 DD>> what to no where to deport me to if I misbehave.

 LL> I thought those who misbehaved bad enough were granted a much longer
 LL> stay, with free room and board ...

Depends on the offence here, and even after that long stay I'm likely to be
deported.

 LL> The issuance of passports is a relative new thing.  In the past, folks
 LL> would simply move to wherever they wanted to go without having to bother
 LL> with such papers.

In the past we kept slaves and women had no vote and no "rights". Times change.

 LL>>> Do you vote?  Even if you choose not to vote, you have the right to
 LL>>> vote.

 DD>> I have no voting rights in AUsralia, only citizens do. I do not vote in
NZ,
 DD>> after 34 years away from there I care not about their politics.

 LL> You must be a peacenik.  :)

Dunno about that. When I left NZ it was "one vote, one value". In Australia
they practice preferential voting, one is expected to vote for all candidates
in order of preference. One is obliged to vote for persons one does not want in
power. If one only votes for the person one wants, the preferences are assigned
for one.

 LL>>> At least in NZ, which has chosen to grant you citizenship (how
 LL>>> very nice of them).

 DD>> They grant citizenship to every born there of NZ parents (and probably
 DD>> others).

 LL> Maori were in NZ before there was a NZ.  As such, why would Maori
 LL> care about NZ citizenship?  Maori never needed it before.  Nor did
 LL> Maori ask for it to be bestowed upon them.

They didn't travel to foreign countries once they arrived in New Zealand (some
think in the 1500's).

 LL>>> When you vote, you are using force.  And force
 LL>>> is violence.  Violence is, of course, the Supreme Authority from
 LL>>> which all good things (other authority devices) come from.

 DD>> If/when I vote I force the pencil to make a mark on the paper, other than
 DD>> that I am expressing an opinion about who I would like to represent me in
 DD>> parliament. Of course once they are in there they care not about what I
 DD>> think.

 LL> Man lives in community.  Voting is a means in which members of that
 LL> community can express their own authority in matters of importance.
 LL> The option not to vote is also a means in which members can express
 LL> their own authority.

 LL> Apathy is a form of political stability.  The more people choose
 LL> not to vote, the happier they are with the way things are.

Or not. At least they can claim that "they didn't vote for those bastards in
power"
[...]
 DD>> 34 years ago - about as long as JC was on earth.

 LL> Jesus lived to the ripe old age of 108 after traveling to Japan,
 LL> where he and his woman are buried on holy ground.

I'm sorry, we must be talking about a different person.
[...]
 DD>> Pure wank - you are no more of one race than I am.

 LL> Au contraire.  We are all mutts.  All the pure breeds have been
 LL> bred out of extinction.

I think that was what I said...

-- 
Regards
David

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