Text 18429, 116 rader
Skriven 2014-09-19 03:26:52 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
  Kommentar till text 18394 av Daniel Torrey (1:132/505)
Ärende: Power of Love
=====================
Hello Daniel,

 LL>> "If you want peace, work for justice." - Pope Paul VI (also
 LL>> attributed to Pope John Paul II)

 LL>> There is no such thing as a "just war" - as there is nothing
 LL>> "just" about war.  The killing of innocents is horrible enough,

 DT> I'm afraid your grasp of Catholic doctrine regarding war is somewhat
 DT> lacking.

The death penalty is reserved for those who deserve to die.
But there is no reason to murder anybody, especially in my name,
given the fact there are prisons that can hold violent criminals
in place for the rest of their natural life, thus keeping society
safe from harm.

War is just another means of enacting the death penalty, only
on a massive scale rather than on an individual basis.  All done
in our name, so that no soldier will ever blame himself for the
evils he hath done.

 DT> See paragraphs 2307 - 2317 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church for
more
 DT> detail, but briefly, there is indeed a doctrine of "just war", which Pope
 DT> Francis has referred to in recent days.

What a pope says at a cocktail party is just an opinion.
Nothing more, nothing less.  What comprises the Teaching of
the Church (Magisterium) is something totally different.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains the faith,
but is only part of what is the Teaching of the Church.
Add to that all Papal Encyclicals, Sacred Scripture, and
Tradition.  Anything outside of that does not count, even
though it might make interesting reading.  For example,
Canon Law does not count.  The Constitution of the Church
also does not count.  Lots of other stuff also does not
count.

How long is the Mass?  When does it start?  When does it
end?  In what order do the prayers have to be said?  Or
does it matter?  Is the pope Catholic?

 DT> This is not to gainsay the words of Pope Paul IV

He was a bit before my time ...

 DT> or Pope John Paul II -

He was a good actor.  And a good playright.  And a good poet.
And a good showman.  And a good many other things.  But he was
no saint.  The pedophile scandal should have been dealt with
early on, but JPII chose to do nothing until one year before
he left this earth.  And by then it was too little, too late.

 DT> war is to be avoided if at all possible,

Jesus was not a pacifist.  And neither am I.  War should be detested
by all, Christians and non-Christians alike.  Have you ever heard a
man or woman of religious faith proclaim "Make war, not love"?  That
is too absurd a thought to even contemplate.  Hell, even the most
militant atheists like to fuck.

 DT> and wars don't solve the problems that are their own root cause -

What is the root cause?  Not even St. Augustine could find
the answer to that one.  Did God create the evil that exists?
Where did that evil originate?  If not from God, then where?

 DT> but war in the defense of the weak is in some cases a moral requirement.

"We had to burn the village to save it." - GI Joe in Vietnam

 DT> From the Catechism, paragraph 2309:

 DT> The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require
 DT> rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to
 DT> rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

 DT>  - the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of
 DT> nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

 DT>  - all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be
 DT> impractical or ineffective;

 DT>  - there must be serious prospects of success;

 DT>  - the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the
 DT> evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs
very
 DT> heavily in evaluating this condition.

 DT>  - These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the
 DT> "just war" doctrine.

 DT>  - The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the
 DT> prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

 DT> I certainly respect your right to an opinion that differs from mine (and
I'm
 DT> still unsure if the doctrine of just war applies to the current
situation),
 DT> but if you're going to start quoting Popes, best to do so in context,
don't
 DT> you think?

Pope Benedict XVI made his announcement to resign the papacy in Latin.
Are you sure you want me to inflict you on that much pain and suffering?
Pope Francis is just as good as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI in Latin.
Maybe even moreso.  So be careful what you ask for ...

--Lee

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