Text 27984, 192 rader
Skriven 2015-09-06 19:47:00 av Bill McGarrity (20176.2fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 27960 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Re: Z1C
===============
-=> David Drummond wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

 DD> On 7/09/2015 12:27 AM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>> Correct - and no-one is going to tell me what to do when I am
 DD>> communicating with others.

 BM> There's the conundrum... it's like living in Oz.. you play by their rules.
 BM> Same as FIdo.

 DD> I do not live in FIDO - FIDONET is just a set of technical specs. All
 DD> else is personal equipment and personally financed data links.

Yet you play your games here... a presence.  Think of it as a virtual reality
and you ARE a member of this evil society!!

 DD>> The Internet has no "rules", why should Fidonet?

 BM> I see... try downloading child porn and let me know if there are no rules.

 DD> Those are not internet rules - they are the laws of the country I live
 DD> in. The Internet has no laws.

So you're admitting you have to follow rules regarding internet usage? Mmmmm...
sounds alot like Fido.


 DD> [...]
 BM>> Opinion... which is fine but one little snag.  You're set as PVT and as
 DD> such,
 BM>> are dependent on your NC to move your mail

 DD>> If you check the nodelist again you will find I have no such dependency
 DD>> on the NC.

 BM> OK.. do you not have some dependency with some sort of *C to get your
 DD> netmail?

 DD> I didn't say that - I specified that I wasn't dependent on my NC to
 DD> pass on my netmail. You are aware of the nodelist entry for a "mail
 DD> host"?

Yes, and /your/ was wrong terminology.  In some way you, as well as I, are
dependent on the structure as used now.  Even if we get rid of all the RC's
there will still be NC's that handle duties. Hell, even you are running an NC
flag. Why?  Thought they weren't needed?

 BM> Lots of them out there that have no idea you're even in the loop.

 DD> They don't even know of me so why would they care?

They're caring people.  You may not see it... but there are a few in the world.

 BM>  How does one send you netmail?

 DD> You send it routed I guess - same as you would any other PVT node. I
 DD> have received netmails since I have been listed PVT so it must be
 DD> possible.

My point.

 BM> I can't send it direct therefore it has to go through one of
 BM> the *C's I'm connected to. That in itself blows your theory out of the
 BM> water.

 DD> Or you drop it at this net's mail host

Which is?

 DD> [...]
 BM>> It seems it's still required in cases such as yourself.

 DD>> Nope no LD costs for my node. - Just normal Internet expenses.

 BM> I was talking about your internet expense as you pointed out previously.

 DD> That expense doesn't vary with the distance of the target node as it
 DD> did when moving mail by POTS.

No one said it does... I'm stictly talking about today's FIdo.... not the past.

 DD> [...]
 DD>> Each node has a majority of one - the "net" concept is as outdated as
 DD>> the zone concept. There is no need for hierarchical mail movement now.

 BM> Again, your opinion but without them and their routing procedure how do I
 DD> send
 BM> you a netmail?

 DD> You don't need your *Cs for that, you could drop it at someone in the
 DD> structure here (if they're not PVT). Maybe at the mail host.
 DD> [...]

 BM> Do you call your elected officials in Oz uber lords?

 DD> Just the Fidonet ones.

So you're saying Fido uber lords are elected? I see.  So either way, you're
stuck without a vote. Intersting.  I'd be more concerned with gaining the power
of the ballot in your country of residence rather than worrying about Fido,
which you stated many times you really don't give two shits about.  Why put the
effort into protesting IF you were aware or had a vote 25+ years ago?  You want
a change.. call for it.

 DD>> Try one vote per node, and a central vote counting system - TRUE
 DD>> democracy.

 BM> Sorry to say you're living a dream...

 DD> So.. true democracy in a group as small as ours is not possible? It
 DD> certainly worked in the motorcycle group I used to belong to. All
 DD> members got to vote on stuff.

You had 2,700+ bikers in your group? Damn... must have taken a long time to get
crosstown.

 DD> [...]
 DD>> Nope - I'm calling them redundant.

 BM> but very efficient. I can only magine trying to keep track of the 30,000+
 DD> votes
 BM> way back when if they tried it your way.

 DD> That was then, This is now. There are not 30,000 voters anymore
 DD> [...]

 DD>> But Fidonet is not a country, it is a collection of private systems
 DD>> communicating with each other at theoir own expense. Fidonet itself
 DD>> provides NOTHING to that communication, it is all done by individuals

 BM> Without the originators of Fido we wouldn't be having this discussion....
 BM> respect your elders.. ;)

 DD> Respect is not just given, it must be earned.

So by using this technology you're alrady given your respect. No respect, don't
use it... 

 DD>>> I do however get to control the network/Internet access of over 25,000
 DD>>> users world-wide (even some in USA *gasp*). That really gives me a
 DD>>> woody I'm sure.

 BM> Quite the dreams of grandure there... oh uber lord

 DD> Not dreams, facts.

Again, outside of the realm of our discussion... 

 DD> [...]

 DD>> Others can communicate with me - simply send an netmail, or say
 DD>> something in one of these echoes. my system resides behind NATs -
 DD>> somewhat difficult to poll in.

 BM> But God forbid... that would depend on a *C to route it to you.

 DD> We do have a mail host in this net... My NC need not be involved!

 BM>> Till then, you're at the mercy of your NC which,

 DD>> My NC is a right utter bastard - I wouldn't leave myself at his mercy.
 DD>> My node operates independent of him.

 BM> Yet you're still here at his mercy whether you believe it or not.

 DD> He will/can not do anything against me - I have control of him :)

But zero conrol over the other *C structure.... if they so desire. 

We're all an island and as such we are all dependent on some sort of
/structure/ that allows conmunication.  Whether you can see that or not is not
my issue... nor my monkeys... nor my circus. 

You're allowed to have your opinions as I am allowed... but you know what they
say about opinions... 


--

Bill

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