Text 27994, 208 rader
Skriven 2015-09-07 12:38:37 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Kommentar till text 27984 av Bill McGarrity (20176.2fidonews)
Ärende: Z1C
===========
On 7/09/2015 9:47 AM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:
DD>> I do not live in FIDO - FIDONET is just a set of technical specs. All
DD>> else is personal equipment and personally financed data links.
BM> Yet you play your games here... a presence. Think of it as a virtual
BM> reality and you ARE a member of this evil society!!
I don't have a membership card or a membership number. My computer has a node
number, just as it has an IP. I am not a member of the Internet either.
[...]
DD>> Those are not internet rules - they are the laws of the country I live
DD>> in. The Internet has no laws.
BM> So you're admitting you have to follow rules regarding internet usage?
Mmmmm...
BM> sounds alot like Fido.
Nope I obey (some of) the laws of the land. I don't get child porn via snail
mail either. I am not a member of Australia Post BTW.
[...]
DD>> I didn't say that - I specified that I wasn't dependent on my NC to
DD>> pass on my netmail. You are aware of the nodelist entry for a "mail
DD>> host"?
BM> Yes, and /your/ was wrong terminology. In some way you, as well as I, are
BM> dependent on the structure as used now. Even if we get rid of all the
RC's
BM> there will still be NC's that handle duties. Hell, even you are running
BM> an NC flag. Why? Thought they weren't needed?
We need nodelist clerks at the moment. If we could come up with a dynamic
system - like DHCP, then we wouldn't need them either. True democracy and
freedom - everyone with the same (lack of) power.
BM>> Lots of them out there that have no idea you're even in the loop.
DD>> They don't even know of me so why would they care?
BM> They're caring people. You may not see it... but there are a few in the
world.
Very few in Z1 Fidonet (going by the behaviour here)
BM>> How does one send you netmail?
DD>> You send it routed I guess - same as you would any other PVT node. I
DD>> have received netmails since I have been listed PVT so it must be
DD>> possible.
BM> My point.
We don't need a political layer of power mongers telling us what/how to do just
to get mail. Just the technical specs.
BM>> I can't send it direct therefore it has to go through one of
BM>> the *C's I'm connected to. That in itself blows your theory out of the
BM>> water.
DD>> Or you drop it at this net's mail host
BM> Which is?
3:640/0 according to a nodelist 247 I collected from Janis yesterday. Are you
not seeing that?
But unless you want to make an international phone call, you cannot, he is POTS
only according to that list. I guess you're going to have to send it routed
from your end, or drop it at R54C - or Z3C. You could drop it anywhere in
Fidonet actually and it would find its way to me - assuming people have their
systems set up correctly.
Maybe better just to say what you want here.
DD>> [...]
BM>>> It seems it's still required in cases such as yourself.
DD>>> Nope no LD costs for my node. - Just normal Internet expenses.
BM>> I was talking about your internet expense as you pointed out
BM> previously.
DD>> That expense doesn't vary with the distance of the target node as it
DD>> did when moving mail by POTS.
BM> No one said it does... I'm stictly talking about today's FIdo.... not
BM> the past.
Today's Fido does not exist as it did - just a bunch of us sending messages to
each other.
DD>> [...]
DD>>> Each node has a majority of one - the "net" concept is as outdated as
DD>>> the zone concept. There is no need for hierarchical mail movement now.
BM>> Again, your opinion but without them and their routing procedure how do I
DD>> send you a netmail?
DD>> You don't need your *Cs for that, you could drop it at someone in the
DD>> structure here (if they're not PVT). Maybe at the mail host.
DD>> [...]
BM>> Do you call your elected officials in Oz uber lords?
DD>> Just the Fidonet ones.
BM> So you're saying Fido uber lords are elected? I see. So either way,
you're
BM> stuck without a vote.
Huh? I get to vote in Fidonet elections (that involve me)
BM> Intersting. I'd be more concerned with gaining the power of the ballot in
your country of residence rather than worrying about Fido,
BM> which you stated many times you really don't give two shits about. Why
put the effort into protesting IF you were aware or had a vote 25+ years ago?
BM> You want a change.. call for it.
Australia has two major political parties. They only difference between them is
the colour of their ties.
DD>>> Try one vote per node, and a central vote counting system - TRUE
DD>>> democracy.
BM>> Sorry to say you're living a dream...
DD>> So.. true democracy in a group as small as ours is not possible? It
DD>> certainly worked in the motorcycle group I used to belong to. All
DD>> members got to vote on stuff.
BM> You had 2,700+ bikers in your group?
No - about 600 at its height I think
BM> Damn... must have taken a long time to get crosstown.
They never rode all together at one time - they were spread out over the whole
state. Think of an area about 1/5th the size of USA....
[...]
BM>> Without the originators of Fido we wouldn't be having this discussion....
BM>> respect your elders.. ;)
DD>> Respect is not just given, it must be earned.
BM> So by using this technology you're already given your respect.
Respect may need defining - to me it is to hold in high regard. I have no such
feelings for the FTN software authors - they just... are
BM> No respect, don't use it...
I have entered in to no such agreement. have you been partaking of Joe's secret
"reading between the lines" book?
[...]
DD>> Not dreams, facts.
BM> Again, outside of the realm of our discussion...
I'm pointing out that I am not in Fidonet for the "power and glory"
DD>> [...]
DD>>> Others can communicate with me - simply send an netmail, or say
DD>>> something in one of these echoes. my system resides behind NATs -
DD>>> somewhat difficult to poll in.
BM>> But God forbid... that would depend on a *C to route it to you.
DD>> We do have a mail host in this net... My NC need not be involved!
BM>>> Till then, you're at the mercy of your NC which,
DD>>> My NC is a right utter bastard - I wouldn't leave myself at his mercy.
DD>>> My node operates independent of him.
BM>> Yet you're still here at his mercy whether you believe it or not.
DD>> He will/can not do anything against me - I have control of him :)
BM> But zero control over the other *C structure.... if they so desire.
We work in this region/zone by cooperation - we don't need rules to make us
obey.
[...]
BM> We're all an island and as such we are all dependent on some sort of
BM> /structure/ that allows conmunication.
Only the technical structure - we don't need any political layer of people who
think they run things.
BM> Whether you can see that or not is not my issue... nor my monkeys... nor
my circus.
BM> You're allowed to have your opinions as I am allowed... but you know what
they
BM> say about opinions...
Everyone is entitled an opinion - and if they feel the need for one I'll give
them mine.
--
regards
David (Uber Lord)
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