Text 28038, 207 rader
Skriven 2015-09-08 05:57:42 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
  Kommentar till text 28016 av Bill McGarrity (20205.2fidonews)
Ärende: Z1C
===========
On 8/09/2015 12:01 AM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:

 BM>> Just as a user of my BBS is a member.

 DD>> Many will disagree witht hat - after all users are NOT allowed to post
 DD>> in FN_SYSOP "because they are not members/not nodelisted".

 BM> What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

Nothing - but we were discussing membership of Fidonet. Users are not members,
they are nobody - according to the almighty P4

 BM> You access Fido, you communicate through it's technology,  written by
those who don't seem to
 BM> have your respect for yet you claim to not be a member. To each their own
I
 BM> guess.

Use of a product does not make one a member of any club.

 BM>> Pretty simple concept.

 DD>> Too simple - Are you a member of the local telephone carrier when you
 DD>> make a phone call? Even when made form someone else's phone?

 BM> When I use their transmission inrastructure, yes. Either I pay for it at a
 BM> phone booth or the owner of the phone does.

The your definition of member differs from mine.

 BM> By usage alone I accept their terms and condistions. Again, a fairly
simple and widespread concept.

I do not use fidonet for anything. I use my computer and my data ling to
communicate with someone else. All of this happens because individuals.

 DD>> [...]
 BM>>> So you're admitting you have to follow rules regarding internet usage?
 BM>>> Mmmmm...sounds alot like Fido.

 DD>>> Nope I obey (some of) the laws of the land.

 BM>> Better not let the uber lords of Oz hear that....

 DD>> They already know - they issue traffic infingement notices from time to
 DD>> time.

 BM> So I guess you don't pay them as you think they're exercising too much
Khontrol
 BM> being you didn't get to vote on the matter...

Indeed, I haven't paid one in some time.
[...]

 DD>> My interest isn't as strong as it once was. I haven't written any
 DD>> Fidonet utilities in a long time. When Fidonet becomes too bothersome
 DD>> to keep up with I will just drop out. Unlike some I have a life beyond
 DD>> the nodelist.

 BM> Just as we all do but you seem especially interested in this as more of an
OCD
 BM> issue.

Could be - or not, the jury is still out.

 BM> No one is controlling you.

But some would try.

 BM> You say whatever the hell you feel like and I guess no one from the Oz
uber lord society is breaking your door down...
 BM> why stress over bullshit.

Do you think that your society has the exclusive right to freedom of speech?
 BM>> till then, you're bound by the /clerk/ system.

 DD>> Not quite - not every thing happens as per the procedures laid out in
 DD>> Pol4. [...]

 BM> Has that infringed your ability to communicate?

Nope and all done without the usual palaver. No pledges of allegiance, no
swearing to obey the mighty document or the *C sect "managing" it.
[...]
 BM>> Really?  Do you know every listed node member in Z1?

 DD>> Nope - only experienced the ones that present here (as mentioned
 DD>> above). Those that do not present here have no contact with me and
 DD>> probably care as much as I do for them - they're not real people.

 BM> So we're all just numbers... Mr. Orwell... you're a genius!!

You got it. I can terminate any of you from my existence with the click of a
key. Can't do that with real people.
[...]
 BM>> But you need the /clerks/... as of now.  Put your system together based
on DHCP
 BM>> then you may have a point.

 DD>> Clerks are not a political position, just a utility position. They should
not be awarded an omnipotent powers (as many seem to do at the
 DD>> moment).. [...]

 BM> Who has been controlling you? You speak of this as if your sitting in
shackles and chains, you fingers in a metal device to prevent you from
typing...
 BM> oh the humainity!!!

Not me - you! You speak as if you're in fear of your *C structure
excommunicating you.
[...]
 BM>> Sure I do... the entry starts with Host. I'm sure that Host is
responsible for the weekly segment of your net.... right?

 DD>> Wrong - the host is the mail hub. The NC is (supposedly) responsible
 DD>> for the net segment.

 BM> And just who is the NC?

According to that nodelist my node is flying the NC flag - and as I am the one
receiving the humungeous NC salary I guess it is me.

In fact I have just been negotiating for a substantial increase in that salary.

 BM> Could it be Neil in sheeps clothing trying to decieve you?

Neil knows of my national origins - he would not dress that way....

 DD>>> Today's Fido does not exist as it did - just a bunch of us sending
 DD>>> messages to each other.

 BM>> And that has changed from the reasoning of yesteryear? There are many
more
 BM>> echos other thn this one where people are communicating freely with no
deep
 BM>> rooted strife as to how the magic message appears on their screen.

I don't care how they arrive at my screen either but in the interests of
freedom and democracy I ma not going to pleage allegiance to some bunch of *C
upstarts and their invented rules either.

 DD>> Typical consumers. No interest in how the food arrives at their tables
 DD>> as long as they get to gorge.

 BM> Such a sad outlook on life... tsk tsk...

It is - we need to educate them.
[...]

 DD>> The nodelist is intended for computers to consume, not people- thats
 DD>> what we have netmail and echoes for.
 DD>> [...]

 BM> Then why is there an information area within it plainly marked with ;S
before
 BM> each line?

A great place to hide info from the masses?

Why do we have netmail and echo mail message areas?

My system uses a BinkP mailer - it does not use the nodelist you refer to.
[...]
 DD>> Some people have skills that I don't. I have skills that others don't.
 DD>> Not a big deal. No need to bow and scrape before them.

 BM> No one is asking you to get on bended knee and pay homage... but I guess
in
 BM> your eyes that's what respect means.

"To hold in high esteem". I don;t know these authors - I feel nothing
for/against them.

 BM>> Guess you know everything so you can write your own.  Good luck.

 DD>> I've thought about it but lack the motivation.

 BM> Then you can only bitch at yourself...

I'm happy to use the software currently available.
 DD>> [...]
 DD>>> I'm pointing out that I am not in Fidonet for the "power and glory"

 BM>> No one is...

 DD>> Then why won't Janis resign? Why do so many dead echoes have soeone
 DD>> listed as their moderator in the almighty Z1 echo list?

 BM> Ask her... other than the obvious that internal Z1 memos were sent to all
the
 BM> *C structure with regard if elections for the Z1C would be necessary to
run.
 BM> I've been back a little over two years and I remember getting/seeing a
post in
 BM> my local net echo about it. If I can rememeber correctly, my net voted
staus
 BM> quo was acceptable.

Much as FN_SYSOP I suppose.

-- 

regards
David

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