Text 28061, 307 rader
Skriven 2015-09-07 18:24:00 av Bill McGarrity (20254.2fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 28038 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Re: Z1C
===============
-=> David Drummond wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

 DD> On 8/09/2015 12:01 AM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:

 BM>> Just as a user of my BBS is a member.

 DD>> Many will disagree witht hat - after all users are NOT allowed to post
 DD>> in FN_SYSOP "because they are not members/not nodelisted".

 BM> What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

 DD> Nothing - but we were discussing membership of Fidonet. Users are not
 DD> members, they are nobody - according to the almighty P4

They contribute, they're a member.

 BM> You access Fido, you communicate through it's technology,  written by
 DD> those who don't seem to
 BM> have your respect for yet you claim to not be a member. To each their own
 DD> I
 BM> guess.

 DD> Use of a product does not make one a member of any club.

Fido is not a product... it's a community.  Last I looked it wasn't being
traded on any of the world stock exchanges.

BTW...

Member [MEM-ber]

Noun

a person, animal, plant, group, etc., that is part of a society, party,
community, taxon, or other body.


 BM>> Pretty simple concept.

 DD>> Too simple - Are you a member of the local telephone carrier when you
 DD>> make a phone call? Even when made form someone else's phone?

 BM> When I use their transmission inrastructure, yes. Either I pay for it at a
 BM> phone booth or the owner of the phone does.

 DD> The your definition of member differs from mine.

Look above...

 BM> By usage alone I accept their terms and condistions. Again, a fairly
 DD> simple and widespread concept.

 DD> I do not use fidonet for anything. I use my computer and my data ling
 DD> to communicate with someone else. All of this happens because
 DD> individuals.

Agreed, the individuals who wrote the software that sits on your computer that
communicates with the community.  If you don't like the community, then I'd
advise you to delete the software, sit back and enjoy the upcoming Ozzie
ummer.

 DD>> [...]
 BM>>> So you're admitting you have to follow rules regarding internet usage?
 BM>>> Mmmmm...sounds alot like Fido.

 DD>>> Nope I obey (some of) the laws of the land.

 BM>> Better not let the uber lords of Oz hear that....

 DD>> They already know - they issue traffic infingement notices from time to
 DD>> time.

 BM> So I guess you don't pay them as you think they're exercising too much
 DD> Khontrol
 BM> being you didn't get to vote on the matter...

 DD> Indeed, I haven't paid one in some time.

So then we can add scofflaw to one of your many titles.

 DD> [...]

 DD>> My interest isn't as strong as it once was. I haven't written any
 DD>> Fidonet utilities in a long time. When Fidonet becomes too bothersome
 DD>> to keep up with I will just drop out. Unlike some I have a life beyond
 DD>> the nodelist.

 BM> Just as we all do but you seem especially interested in this as more of an

 DD> OCD
 BM> issue.

 DD> Could be - or not, the jury is still out.

 BM> No one is controlling you.

 DD> But some would try.

Why would anyone point you out as the one to control.  You're seemingly a
disgruntled member of Fido who, by his own admission, respects no one. I for
one only do it as to see into your mind and how you truely feel about Fido and
the rest of the membership.

 BM> You say whatever the hell you feel like and I guess no one from the Oz
 DD> uber lord society is breaking your door down...
 BM> why stress over bullshit.

 DD> Do you think that your society has the exclusive right to freedom of
 DD> speech?
 BM>> till then, you're bound by the /clerk/ system.

 DD>> Not quite - not every thing happens as per the procedures laid out in
 DD>> Pol4. [...]

 BM> Has that infringed your ability to communicate?

 DD> Nope and all done without the usual palaver. No pledges of allegiance,
 DD> no swearing to obey the mighty document or the *C sect "managing" it.

Ahhhh... in your mind you think so but what about the rest of the *C structure
that moves your mail from one point to the other... Take this message for
instance...

X-FTN-PATH       640/305 384 203/0

Well I'll be... Bj%rn is there!! In order for your /idea/ can ever be possible
you, as every other node would ahve to contact directly every node listed.  I
don't see you calling my system? Bj%rn yes. Therefore, you need a *C to
communicate.

 DD> [...]
 BM>> Really?  Do you know every listed node member in Z1?

 DD>> Nope - only experienced the ones that present here (as mentioned
 DD>> above). Those that do not present here have no contact with me and
 DD>> probably care as much as I do for them - they're not real people.

 BM> So we're all just numbers... Mr. Orwell... you're a genius!!

 DD> You got it. I can terminate any of you from my existence with the click
 DD> of a key. Can't do that with real people.

Playing the island card again? 

 DD> [...]
 BM>> But you need the /clerks/... as of now.  Put your system together based
 DD> on DHCP
 BM>> then you may have a point.

 DD>> Clerks are not a political position, just a utility position. They should

 DD> not be awarded an omnipotent powers (as many seem to do at the
 DD>> moment).. 

Moderators are actually the ones who enforce any given law within an echo. 
*C's enforce the tecnical end of it just as you want. Where's the problem? 
[...]

 BM> Who has been controlling you? You speak of this as if your sitting in
 DD> shackles and chains, you fingers in a metal device to prevent you from
 DD> typing...
 BM> oh the humainity!!!

 DD> Not me - you! You speak as if you're in fear of your *C structure
 DD> excommunicating you.

I don't fear a thing.  In your mind you think I may but what is to fear?...
others moving mail so I can communicate with others?  You seem to have too much
time on your hands which seem to be leading to psychotic issues that everyone
is after you.  Hardly the case.  You, as I are on the bottom of the totum
pole.. this is a hobby for me and as such I take things with a grain of salt
anymore.  Why get stressed as you seem to be doing with the your /they're after
me/ attitude. 

 DD> [...]
 BM>> Sure I do... the entry starts with Host. I'm sure that Host is
 DD> responsible for the weekly segment of your net.... right?

 DD>> Wrong - the host is the mail hub. The NC is (supposedly) responsible
 DD>> for the net segment.

 BM> And just who is the NC?

 DD> According to that nodelist my node is flying the NC flag - and as I am
 DD> the one receiving the humungeous NC salary I guess it is me.

 DD> In fact I have just been negotiating for a substantial increase in that
 DD> salary.

Would a 15% raise satisfy your demands?

 BM> Could it be Neil in sheeps clothing trying to decieve you?

 DD> Neil knows of my national origins - he would not dress that way....

 DD>>> Today's Fido does not exist as it did - just a bunch of us sending
 DD>>> messages to each other.

 BM>> And that has changed from the reasoning of yesteryear? There are many
 DD> more
 BM>> echos other thn this one where people are communicating freely with no
 DD> deep
 BM>> rooted strife as to how the magic message appears on their screen.

 DD> I don't care how they arrive at my screen either but in the interests
 DD> of freedom and democracy I ma not going to pleage allegiance to some
 DD> bunch of *C upstarts and their invented rules either.

 DD>> Typical consumers. No interest in how the food arrives at their tables
 DD>> as long as they get to gorge.

 BM> Such a sad outlook on life... tsk tsk...

 DD> It is - we need to educate them.
 DD> [...]

 DD>> The nodelist is intended for computers to consume, not people- thats
 DD>> what we have netmail and echoes for.
 DD>> [...]

 BM> Then why is there an information area within it plainly marked with ;S
 DD> before
 BM> each line?

 DD> A great place to hide info from the masses?

 DD> Why do we have netmail and echo mail message areas?

 DD> My system uses a BinkP mailer - it does not use the nodelist you refer
 DD> to. 

As do I yet I read it. So it is below your paygrade to read the nodelist?
Sheesh, it's only 20-30 lines.  Bet you could knock that out in say all of 30
seconds.

[...]

 DD>> Some people have skills that I don't. I have skills that others don't.
 DD>> Not a big deal. No need to bow and scrape before them.

 BM> No one is asking you to get on bended knee and pay homage... but I guess
 DD> in
 BM> your eyes that's what respect means.

 DD> "To hold in high esteem". I don;t know these authors - I feel nothing
 DD> for/against them.

But yet earlier you stated you had no respect for them?  Which one is it?

 BM>> Guess you know everything so you can write your own.  Good luck.

 DD>> I've thought about it but lack the motivation.

 BM> Then you can only bitch at yourself...

 DD> I'm happy to use the software currently available.

If that's the case, then you accept by default on how this network operates..
 
 DD>> [...]
 DD>>> I'm pointing out that I am not in Fidonet for the "power and glory"

 BM>> No one is...

 DD>> Then why won't Janis resign? Why do so many dead echoes have soeone
 DD>> listed as their moderator in the almighty Z1 echo list?

 BM> Ask her... other than the obvious that internal Z1 memos were sent to all
 DD> the
 BM> *C structure with regard if elections for the Z1C would be necessary to
 DD> run.
 BM> I've been back a little over two years and I remember getting/seeing a
 DD> post in
 BM> my local net echo about it. If I can rememeber correctly, my net voted
 DD> staus
 BM> quo was acceptable.

 DD> Much as FN_SYSOP I suppose.

Wouldn't know... you seem to be the only one who holds elections in a very
public worldwide echo.  If you don't mind, can you show me an advertisement
from FN_SYSOP where an election was called since 2002 where ALL participants
were advised of such election. The difference is, Z! is an entity within Fido,
just as Z2, Z3 and Z4. What goes on in those other areas are of no concern of
mine, nor anyone elses outside of said zone. Have you ever seen me bitch over
Z2 elections, Z3? Yes, I am in favor of FN_SYSOP elections but after awhile you
get tired of peeing on a flat rock... now I just enjoy the total community
input, as fucked up as it may seem.

Enjoy!


--

Bill

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