Text 28105, 321 rader
Skriven 2015-09-08 08:32:00 av Bill McGarrity (20298.2fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 28093 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Re: Z1C
===============
-=> David Drummond wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

 DD> On 8/09/2015 8:24 AM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>> Nothing - but we were discussing membership of Fidonet. Users are not
 DD>> members, they are nobody - according to the almighty P4

 BM> They contribute, they're a member.

 DD> Of what? According to the almight POL4 users are nobody, no rights and
 DD> no responsibilities.

Information, discussions, arbitrary fuck you's.  That's the problem lately,
yes, we're down to 2,700+ nodes and users are scarce but that doesn't mean we
don't try and have a renaissance where Fido is part of the communication world.
But then again, there are people like you who seem to look at things in a
pessimistic attitude. Oh well... 

 DD> [..]

 DD>> Use of a product does not make one a member of any club.

 BM> Fido is not a product... it's a community.  Last I looked it wasn't being
 BM> traded on any of the world stock exchanges.

 DD> Especially not in Australia where is has n legal existence at all.

 DD> Fidonet is nothing but a technology.

Technology that created a community. If community wasn't the goal, wtf would
Jennings even put effort into it.  Why would over 30,000 nodes stem from it. 
Why are there echo areas to exchange ideas, or in most cases these days, insult
others. 

 BM> Member [MEM-ber]

 BM> Noun

 BM> a person, animal, plant, group, etc., that is part of a society, party,
 BM> community, taxon, or other body.

 DD> Fidonet is but a technology.

Your opinion is showing....

 DD> [...]

 BM> Agreed, the individuals who wrote the software that sits on your
 BM> computer that communicates with the community.

 DD> Nope - I use an NNTP client to write messages. Those message are
 DD> dropped at another system out there on the Internet using NNTP
 DD> protocols. What that system does with them is not my doing.

Fine, but the fact remains the messages you send DO enter the FTN realm for
distribution. Without that distribution I doubt anyone would answer you. In
hiundsight, I don't know why I'm wasting my time. 

 BM>  If you don't like the community, then I'd advise you to delete the
 DD> software,

 DD> I use the mail editor for SMTP messages too.

 DD>> Indeed, I haven't paid one in some time.

 BM> So then we can add scofflaw to one of your many titles.

 DD> A North American term, so not likely to be applied to me here.

True, but you're an intelligent man and that's what dictionaries were printed
for. 


 DD> But, that exactly explains Fidonet's stupid bloody Policy.

No one is debating on whether it is stupid of not.... we're discussing your use
of Fidonet as a mover of mail within the community and which you are dependent
upon, just like the rest of us.

 DD>> [...]

 DD>>> My interest isn't as strong as it once was. I haven't written any
 DD> Fidonet utilities in a long time. When Fidonet becomes too bothersome
 DD>>> to keep up with I will just drop out. Unlike some I have a life beyond
 DD> the nodelist.

 BM>> Just as we all do but you seem especially interested in this as more of
 DD> an OCD issue.

 DD>> Could be - or not, the jury is still out.

 BM>> No one is controlling you.

 DD>> But some would try.

As in who? 

 BM> Why would anyone point you out as the one to control.  You're seemingly a
 DD> disgruntled member of Fido who, by his own admission, respects no one.
 DD> I
 BM> for one only do it as to see into your mind and how you truely feel about
 DD> Fido and the rest of the membership.

 DD> I don't.

Yet you seem to have a paranoia about you that someone/something is out to get
you.  Again, who is out to get you? 

 BM>> You say whatever the hell you feel like and I guess no one from the Oz
 DD>> uber lord society is breaking your door down...
 BM>> why stress over bullshit.

 DD>> Do you think that your society has the exclusive right to freedom of
 DD>> speech?

Not at all.... but there are limits on freedom of speech. As an intelligent ma
you should understand that concept.

 BM>>> till then, you're bound by the /clerk/ system.

 DD>>> Not quite - not every thing happens as per the procedures laid
 BM> out in
 DD>>> Pol4. 

Such as? 

[...]

 BM>> Has that infringed your ability to communicate?

 DD>> Nope and all done without the usual palaver. No pledges of
 BM> allegiance,
 DD>> no swearing to obey the mighty document or the *C sect "managing" it.

 BM> Ahhhh... in your mind you think so but what about the rest of the *C
 DD> structure that moves your mail from one point to the other...

 DD> Only one *C is involved in the movement of my mail - then it travels
 DD> via "normal" echo paths.

Last time I looked 1 does not equal 0.

 DD>  Take this message for
 BM> instance...

 BM> X-FTN-PATH       640/305 384 203/0

 BM> Well I'll be... Bj%rn is there!!

 DD> Yep, Bj.rn as a mail mover, not Bj.rn as a *C. According to policy *Cs
 DD> have no obligation to move echomail.

Is he part of the *C hierarchy? One can wear many hats and still ne part of the
*C registry. He's even RC20. Trust me, I don't have issue with Bj%rn.  We
consistantly move mail back and forth everyday.  I'm not a *C so do I qualify
as one of your trusted non-*C mail mover? 

 BM> In order for your /idea/ can ever be possible you, as every other node
 DD> would ahve to contact directly every node listed.  I
 BM> don't see you calling my system? Bj%rn yes. Therefore, you need a *C to
 DD> communicate.

 DD> If I wished to contact your system directly I would crashmail your
 DD> system directly. Up until now I have had no need to do that.
 DD> 

True, but weren't you one of the one's that were doubting the possibility of
routed echomail? We're not talking about netmail, the discussion is based upon
echomail.

[...]

 BM>> So we're all just numbers... Mr. Orwell... you're a genius!!

 DD>> You got it. I can terminate any of you from my existence with the click
 DD>> of a key. Can't do that with real people.

 BM> Playing the island card again?

 DD> Nope, playing the virtual reality card.

It has yet to be prefected... 

 DD>>> Clerks are not a political position, just a utility position. They
 DD> should

 DD>> not be awarded an omnipotent powers (as many seem to do at the
 DD>>> moment)..

 BM> Moderators are actually the ones who enforce any given law within an echo.

 DD> Or not - they have no power these days.
 DD> [...]
 DD>> Not me - you! You speak as if you're in fear of your *C structure
 DD>> excommunicating you.

 BM> I don't fear a thing.  In your mind you think I may but what is to
 DD> fear?...
 BM> others moving mail so I can communicate with others?  You seem to have
 DD> too much
 BM> time on your hands which seem to be leading to psychotic issues that
 DD> everyone
 BM> is after you.  Hardly the case.  You, as I are on the bottom of the totum
 BM> pole.. this is a hobby for me and as such I take things with a grain of
 DD> salt
 BM> anymore.  Why get stressed as you seem to be doing with the your /they're
 DD> after
 BM> me/ attitude.

 DD> Then why are you telling me I must obey the rules? Sure sounds like
 DD> you're trying to control my actions.

All I am discussing with you is the movement of echomail.  You're the one
flying off on tangents when you get back into a corner. 

 DD> [...]

 DD>> A great place to hide info from the masses?

 DD>> Why do we have netmail and echo mail message areas?

 DD>> My system uses a BinkP mailer - it does not use the nodelist you
 BM> refer
 DD>> to.

 BM> As do I yet I read it. So it is below your paygrade to read the nodelist?
 BM> Sheesh,

 DD> I don't usually have a copy of the nodelist - I grabbed one the other
 DD> day to check something.

As the U,NC of your net, are you not required to distribute the weekly nodelist
and to make sure the segments are valid? If you don't have a copy, how is it
distributed? You have nodes with POTS lines and I'm sure. last time I looked,
binkd doesn't support POTS directly.

 DD>> "To hold in high esteem". I don;t know these authors - I feel nothing
 DD>> for/against them.

 BM> But yet earlier you stated you had no respect for them?  Which one is it?

 DD> I have no feelings for which includes a lack of the feeling of respect.
 DD> Nada.

A man void of feelings... rather sad.

 [...]
 D>> I've thought about it but lack the motivation.

 BM>> Then you can only bitch at yourself...

 DD>> I'm happy to use the software currently available.

 BM> If that's the case, then you accept by default on how this network
 BM> operates..

 DD> I don't use any Fidonet network, I communicate via the Internet.

Answer me this.  I'm sure you have high voltage power lines throughout
Australia. Do these power lines generate the electricty or are there stations
that generate then distribute? The internet is in no uncertain terms, a
similiar beast. You're message is generated at your computer... which hits the
Interenet as a transmission conduit. Low and behold, it gets to the address you
marked for it and viola... FTN technology takes over to distribute it to others
where is it split into more transmission lines till it reaches everyone who's
linked to said echo. Same works in reverse. You want to feel independent of it
all.... then send that one message to everyone linked to a specific echo at the
same time.  Then you've succeeded in your quest.  Till then, you're dependent. 

 DD> [...]

 DD>> Much as FN_SYSOP I suppose.

 BM> Wouldn't know... you seem to be the only one who holds elections in a very
 BM> public worldwide echo.  If you don't mind, can you show me an
 DD> advertisement
 BM> from FN_SYSOP where an election was called since 2002 where ALL
 DD> participants
 BM> were advised of such election.

 DD> Sorry, you are not part of the elite set that are privy to the
 DD> communication.

So for one who hates khontrol.... you seem to use it when it suits your needs. 
You have something to hide? If not, show us.  Afterall.. FN_SYSOP is an
international echo where the particpants have the right to now. None of thise
elitist shit. And before you for go starting shit about Z1... that's not a
worldwide distributed echo and as someone who lives in Z3 have zero rights to
say how it is run one way or the other.  


 BM> The difference is, Z! is an entity within Fido, just as Z2, Z3 and Z4.
 DD> What goes on in those other areas are of no
 BM> concern of mine, nor anyone elses outside of said zone.

 DD> That's how the Jews went under during WWII - wasn't anyone else's
 DD> concern.

Now you're comparing Fido to Nazi Germany?? LOL... you're more paranoid than I
originally thought!!! 

 DD> And now that I have brought that subject up we must drop the thread.

Sorry Charlie... more tangents. 


--

Bill

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