Text 3249, 96 rader
Skriven 2012-09-02 07:52:54 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
   Kommentar till text 3243 av Dale Shipp (1:261/1466.0)
Ärende: Qwk
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Dale Shipp wrote to Robert Bashe on Saturday September 01 2012 at 22:36:

DS> You are talking about nodes and points.  Believe it or not, there are
DS> others who participate in Fidonet who are (shudder) users. Many of
DS> them use offline readers.

I doubt we have many of those left here, Dale. That may be still another
difference between Z1 and at least R24 in Z2. Most of the users we had would
read messages on a BBS, but for lack of traffic we don't have many of those
around anymore. Could be different outside R24, but at least here, the game
really is nodes and points.

RB>> problem a  long time ago: the difficulty in locating and replying to
RB>> prior messages without having a mailbase. You apparently can do this,
RB>> but when I was working with BlueWave a _very_ long time ago, this was
RB>> impossible and a big handicap.

DS> I wonder why you had such problem.  Bluewave has some pretty decent
DS> search procedures.  It is rare that I go back into the data base for
DS> my BBS system.

The basic reason was that everything came together in different packets - all
messages for all echos in one packet, then the same in the next and so forth.
To find a certain message, you had to look through numerous packets. That was
BlueWave at the time I was using it. Maybe the search procedures came later,
but I didn't have them in the early 1990s (Spring of 1993, if I remember
correctly).

BF>>> Are you saying that most of the non-sysop users in the US are using
BF>>> a severely outdated piece of crap like QWK? Poor fellows...

RB>> Bjorn is poorly informed. There are plenty of point packages around,
RB>> and apparently even mailboxes are still common in Z1, whereas the've
RB>> effectively died out in Z2 (I shut mine down in the early 2000's
RB>> after there had been no calls for over two years).

DS> I don't know what you mean by "mailboxes".

BBSes, Maximus, whatever you want to call them. Numbers you call up with a
modem and connect to give you some kind of entry screen, followed by a menu.
Maybe the terminology has changed over time, but we called them mailboxes.

DS>> Yes, he is saying that.  Actually, it works quite well.  Other than
DS>> QWK and Bluewave, what else provides an offline capability?

RB>> Offline? Practically any point package, many of which can be modified
RB>> to run as a node system (look at me <g> - this is my meanwhile highly
RB>> modified point package of 1993).

DS> I don't view point packages and node systems in the same category as
DS> offline packages.

Point packages are basically only OLRs with a mailbase and a means of
transmitting/receiving mail. They require no BBS, just a node system to connect
to.

But node systems are, as you mention, greatly different from a simple OLR.

DS>> QWK is built into many BBS systems, such as Maximus which I use.

RB>> See the difference? It's as though we were talking different
RB>> languages. At least in R24, there are practically no BBS systems left
RB>> - just no demand. Thus no opportunity to use them for reading and
RB>> writing fidomail.

DS> Strange that you should say that, since Fidonet is supposed to be a
DS> system of Electronic Bulletin Board Systems.  In my opinion, Fidonet
DS> systems should be serving users -- not just serving themselves.

They don't. Most node systems have a number of up- and downlinks, and most
(including mine) serve a few to quite a lot of points. It's just that with the
onset of binkd, the prevelance of relatively cheap DSL and the lack of interest
in things like "chatting", BBS systems have simply lost their original
clientele here in R24. Nobody calls a mailbox anymore just to get echomail or
netmail - it's much quicker and easier to simply poll an uplink and then read
and write at your pleasure.

The only thing that hasn't changed much over the years (except for Bjorn's
JamNNTPd system) is that most mail is read and written offline. Except in the
early days, until maybe 1997-8 or so, there were still a lot of mailboxes
around, directly accessible by modem, but they started to disappear when ISDN
came in and are meanwhile pretty rare - I couldn't name you an R24 system
offhand that still runs a BBS. Times change.

Bjorn's system is an attempt to run a classical BBS on the Internet, but
instead of dialing a phone number with a modem, you use a browser and go to a
certain URL. The principle is the same, but the connection method is different.

He may get some traffic on this (even apart from Lee Lofoso) in Scandanavia,
but here in R24, the name of the game is to get a point and go online only to
send and receive mail.

Cheers, Bob

--- GoldED+/W32 1.1.5-0613
 * Origin: Jabberwocky System - 02363-56073 ISDN/V34 (2:2448/44)