Text 270, 147 rader
Skriven 2005-05-08 14:49:01 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
    Kommentar till text 265 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
Ärende: Chinese in FidoNet
==========================
Hello Carol,

MvdV>>> Chinese script in FidoNet?

 >> I am not sure what script, I called it chinese.  Used to be we
 >> had some 10 or so .ch echos out here.  Reputed to be in
 >> chinese.  How did they do it?  I do not know.

MvdV>> SO you have never actually seen one f these echos?

 > Nope.  Just have notes about them (never said other mind you
 > about them).

So in fact we do not really know if they actually exist.

 >> I always presumed they had more than one writing style just like the
 >> japanese.

MvdV>> I was aware that Japanese has an official transliteration in latin scr
MvdV>> I was not aware it exist for Chinese.

 > It does

Yes, it seems so: Pinyin.

 > although I cant read it because I cant read chinese
 > language. I see it out here in Asia though.

"Asia" is a big place. What you see in Sasebo most likely is not Pinyin, but
Latinised Japanese. Foir Pinyin you need to go to a place where the main
language is one of the Chinese variants.

 > I figure it's a phonetic translation

So it seems.

 > and as the phoenetics do not match, it must be a bit wierd.

Do not match what?

 > But then, USA 'phonetics' do not match.

USA phonetics do not match Dutch phonetics either. Nor German or French for
that matter. Phonetics seldom match across the language barrier.

 > I remember getting a wrong answer on a spelling quiz as a kid
 > when I moved to Charlottesville VA.  Teacher said you 'drive
 > on a root' spell 'root' so I did.  She meant route.  (R OOO T
 > vs R-oww-T).

Yet in the song about Route 66, it is definitely pronounced as "R OOO T"
(Which, spelled like that btw would in Dutch would be pronounced with an 'O' as
in "row, row row the boat ashore".

 > Aint no suprize some kids on first try will
 > spell 'termater' for tomato either.

That problem exist is all languages, but English is known for its
inconsistencies in mapping spelling to pronounciation. try explaining to a non
native English speaker why the "ng" us "Singer" is pronounced different than
the "ng" in "Ginger". or rather why they are spelled the same while they are
pronounced different.

here is one even you may not know. There is a place in England: Cholmondeley.
Pronounce that.

 > The glory of a 'pictogram' type of writing is that this is
 > never a problem

There are other problems associated with it.

 > but the gap is they are less flexible and *much* harder to learn to read.

For a non native...

 > Hence, many cultures are sorta 'swapping' slowly and if they never
 > had phonetic writing, are adapting to it as a secondary skill.

And it could very well be that the - until quit recent - inability to make
typewritten pictographics has a lot to do with that.

 > At least, that iswhat I seem to see out here (more then China,
 > I mean Asia as a group).

"Asia" is much too large and diverse to see it as a "group".

I think you and I have a LOT more in common than a Japanese and a Tibetan.

 >> I know I've seen 'chinese in english script' out
 >> here from time to time so maybe thats what they did?

MvdV>> Maybe. I doubt if that will be very satisfactory though.

 > Works for a start.  At least, with street signs and such which
 > is what I'd mostly be looking for where i travel.

You do not need to know the language to be able to read the street signs. Just
compare what is on the map with what is on the signs. That works in any
language...

 >> That may be a goodly part of why China seems to have not
 >> kicked off on the BBS scene.

MvdV>> That may be one of the reasons yes. There may also be political
MvdV>> and economic reasons.

 > Quite probably.  One other kicker is out here, it is very
 > common that a house can be wired for just one phone.

As it was here 50 years ago. When I temporarily went back to live with my
parents during a minor setback in my personal life in 1978, they (the telco,
not my parents ;-)) had to dig a trench for a new cable, as the old one had
only one pair of wires for one line.

After 1970 or so all new houses were wired for at least two - and often more -
lines.

 > Thats it.  Other options may not be possible outside the capitol
 > city level areas.  You can ask, but it may take a very LONG
 > time to get a second line, if it's even possible.  That may
 > have a goodly bit to do with Fidonet levels out here.

But of course that situation exists in a lot of other countries too...

 >> The average chinese 'bbs' is an internet site, perhaps with shared
 >> groups,

MvdV>> And that technology supports Chinese....

 > Yup.


 >> but no connect to fidonet.

MvdV>> And so they aren't FidoNet nodes.

 > Never said they were.  That is where some of them went though.

As has happened in lots of other places too...

My conjecture was that in China they were never there in the first place.


Cheeers, Michiel

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