Text 1108, 244 rader
Skriven 2006-05-10 14:06:22 av Philip Lozier (1:267/169)
   Kommentar till text 1080 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: none
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 PL>> I used to have 4 phones for business use, with telemarketers on them
 PL>> from 5pm to 9pm, another for the BBS, and used any of the four other
 PL>> (the telemarketing ones, not another additional 4) lines for my
 PL>> personal voice call needs.  You wouldn't have wanted to see the bills
 PL>> back then (1994 to around late 1999 or early 2000).

 MvdV> No special deal for high volume users?

I got no special deals... it was what it was.

 MvdV> That's another thing we do not have. This difference between home
 MvdV> and business lines. A line is a line here and everyone pays the
 MvdV> same.

There is still a difference between biz and personal lines in my area (don't
know about the rest of the USA), however, they now have a flat rate for biz
whereas it used to be metered via landlines for either incoming or outgoing...
personal phones did not pay for any inbound, but the theory of the telcos for
incoming biz lines here was that incoming
calls were making you profit so they of course wanted their cut.

 MvdV> But for big firms with many lines, they have special deals.

Of course. Here the bigger the firm, the more cuts you get.

 MvdV> It appears to ma however that if you used these lines for
 MvdV> telemarketing you should have had them registred as business
 MvdV> lines....

It seemed to me that trying to operate a small busiess opens you up to many
different ways of getting raped, and to cut whatever corners you can is good
sense.  The telco was very aware of what the lines were used for, but due to a
little browsing of service terms they did acknowledge that due to the limited
hours of the day they were used for such purposes, and the time of day they
were being used (after business hours as a norm), they let me do it.  They even
gave me a toll free number on the main line (1-888-A1SWEEP - non-existant
anymore) under the residential rates.  No foul on my part, they agreed to let
me do it.

 PL>> I offered chimney cleaning and repair services, and even had MANY
 PL>> people who said they "usually hang up on telemarketers",

 MvdV> Nothing personal, but I consider telemarketers a pest.

Yes... I agree... most of them are, and the ones you get trained in the "hard
sell" are the worst.  I often hang up on telelmarketers who I know are bogus.

With the 4 girls I had working for me, before I let them even dial for the
first time, they were trained well under my supervision.  I developed a script
that in the first sentence would either catch the attention of the potential
customer or not by having them know that we were "local" and not some corporate
bunch, and that we were offering an essential home service that they may they
may not have thought about in awhile at a price they never could get if they
called for the service direct to ANY company in the area.

The girls were taught, NO means NO... and no matter even how nicely the
potential customer put it, once they show a non-interest, DON'T PUSH IT as I
did not want a bad reputation in my area... we were getting enough positive
response to not need to push.  A presentation of "soft-sell", hard-sell not
tolerated.

It worked well enough that my company was a household known name in three
counties, known with respect rather than contempt. Known without any tv or
radio ads, just yellow pages, but known by word of mouth referals.

 MvdV> I never buy
 MvdV> from them, I would not even if they offered something I actually
 MvdV> wanted.

I can understand that... a lot of people feel the same way... again, I had
people "who never buy from them" who did buy from me.  Hey... I wasn't selling
"lightbulbs for the handicapped" or "Pencils for Jesus"... many of the people
who would "never buy from them" THANKED me when I was out performing the
service and respected the aproach I took. :)

 MvdV> They jhave the nasty habit of calling me when I am enjoying
 MvdV> my dinner. Caller ID is a blessing.

Caller information was *NEVER* blocked from my end... it's just not my way...
even had people call *IN* who weren't home at the time of the call
based on the caller ID info :)

As to dinner time... I can respect that... and... you'd like to continue eating
dinner in your home I'm sure, wouldn't you? BUT, if the fire
you wanted one day starts the fire you didn't, you might not be able to do that
anymore :)

 PL>> buy the service by phone because they "needed" it, and hadn't thought
 PL>> about it in a long time).

 MvdV> Does not work for me. I would still buy elswhere just out of
 MvdV> principle.

Okay then... I understand where you're coming from.

 PL>> Now it would be illegal for me to have people blanket an area in that
 PL>> manner, despite the fact they would buy the service, becasue too many
 PL>> jackasses scammed and screwed it up for the legitimate people.

 MvdV> Over here e-mail and sms spam is outlawed. Companies may not send
 MvdV> unsollicited e-mail to private persons. They may only send e-mail
 MvdV> if they have already established a client relation with that
 MvdV> person. And then there must be an opt out button.

Souds like e-mail paradise, except I can hardly believe that.  Not being able
to see it first hand I also can't refute it either, so I'll take your word for
it.

 PL>> As low as around 39 bux a month ... with low actual "phone time"

 MvdV> Wow! That is not what *I* call low...

 PL>> minutes, but still absolutely unlimited walkie-talkie usage.

 MvdV> Even so. They pay in a month what I pay on calls in a year....

39 "DOLLARS" (US) for a YEAR of calls on your cell phone?

There has to be something lost in the exchange rate idea, or a misunderstanding
due to language translation barriers. That means I could work on my night job
for about an hour and and a few minutes and have cell phone usage for a year? 
IMPOSSIBLE.

 MvdV>>> Over here it is different. Contracts are for those who make
 MvdV>>> lots of calls and they spend more than the average prepay user.

Pre-pay users are RAPED here.

 PL>> Other "offers" include "extra items" with your purchase if you use a
 PL>> credit card.

 MvdV> Credit cards are not popular here. What we have is a system of bank
 MvdV> cards. You swipe the card thorugh the reader enter the PIN and the
 MvdV> amount is directly transfered from your bank account to that of the
 MvdV> vendor. My estimate is that over 80% of transactions aboive EUR 10
 MvdV> are handled this way.

Your "system of bank cards" is what I refered to as debit checking. You swipe,
and it is deducted from your checking account.

It is good that your people are wise to the scheme of "credit" cards. In my
life experiences I have learned that credit cards are only good for major
purchases.  Some people here live on credit cards, and so long as they meet
their "monthly minimum" payment are happy to fuel the multi billion dollar
industry based on late fees, interest, etc.

It's a fools game, and most of these fools lately max out before they reach 30
and are paying the rest of their lives.  It's easier to deal with buying a
house than dealing with "credit" companies... at least your house at some point
finally gets paid for before you die so you can enjoy it, and pass it on to
your kids.  With credit, in some cases, your DEBT can get passed on to your
kids in one way or another.

 PL>> Other services flat out DENY you if you don't use a credit or debit
 PL>> account.

 MvdV> That would be unheard of here and illegal as well. Cash is legal
 MvdV> tender and vendors are by law required to accept it.

"public" vendors, as in stores and such, are required to take it... But
"services" do deny any cash and even check transactions here. They want your
credit card number, and that's that.

Even debit cards are foolish.  You get charged a per transaction fee, and your
purchases are recorded.

Credit/debit card transaction tracking.  In itself a multi-billion dollar
industry.  All about target marketing, and cross referencing based on your
inforation.

Corporate Capitalism coming into its prime... one thing I have't been able to
tell yet, if America is a democratic or capitalistic based nation. There IS a
difference between the two, yet many of the carpet baggers who voice out seem
to think they're the same.  I myself am for democracy and free enterprise (the
American dream), but the only "free enterprise" that seems to exist is by the
bigwig corporate folks who even the democratic wishes of our people can't
control.

The American dream is dead. The small guy is nothing less than fucked.

Anyway... I think I've said (more than) enough ;>

Gotta move to the next message now.

Phil



 PL>> Funny... (as you put it on the other matter)... in a society that was
 PL>> based on CASH, you are discriminated against for USING cash.

 MvdV> Odd indeed...

 MvdV>>> Over here the cell company would get nothing if it is a
 MvdV>>> prepaid. My estimate is that 80% of all cell phones here are
 MvdV>>> prepaid.

 PL>> Things here are done differently with different providers as far as
 PL>> pre-paid goes here. In your country, is it wide spread that on a
 PL>> pre-paid account your bought minutes are only good for 30 days, or do
 PL>> they roll-over?

 MvdV> Credit used to expire after six month and then roll over when you
 MvdV> recharge, But now it does not expire anymore. it is valid forever.
 MvdV> But you must use it occasioanally. If you do not use the phone at
 MvdV> all for six month, the number lapses. A free call to query the
 MvdV> balance will do.

 PL>>   A few companies (here) have roll-over for pre-paid
 PL>> after you spend a certain ammount, but until you spend that ammount
 PL>> you're only good for 30 days on any given minute buy.  Others stick by
 PL>> the 30 day only on pre-paid.  In that scenario of rewarding you with
 PL>> roll-over for an extended period of time after spending a certain
 PL>> amount, the company has already determined that you -will- use minutes
 PL>> up and they will make money off of you.

 MvdV> Hmmm.. that doesn't soujd very attractive. For the customer.

 PL>>   In the event that minutes are only good for 30 days from purchase,
 PL>> well, then there's you're monthly fee on pre-paid.

 MvdV> Hmmm.... They would not get away with that here. I think there even
 MvdV> was a court ruling on it: you can't let credit simply expire. if
 MvdV> they expire you must give te user a refund on unused credit...

 PL>> Trust me... they have that business plan down here.  They CAN'T *LOSE*
 PL>> money here, no matter pre-paid or credit/debit with a contract, even
 PL>> if they offered free inbound.  The landline companies never did, and
 PL>> afterall it's the same type of service but different transport method.

 MvdV> Yes, I see.

 MvdV> Well, we have these outrageous international roaming fees, but
 MvdV> other than that, I think I am pretty well off with my cell phone
 MvdV> deal. As long as I stay in The Netherlands I *only* pay for
 MvdV> outgoing calls and there is no minimum amount to spend.

 MvdV> Michiel

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